lars_bergquist Posted November 12, 2006 Share #1 Posted November 12, 2006 Advertisement (gone after registration) Hi everybody, Some people think that the IR 'false color' problem came as a surprise to Leica Camera. This cannot be the case. It has been known for quite a lot of time what lack of IR protection does to a CCD sensor. See for instance what B+W (i.e. Schneider) say in their current filter book, published at least three years ago: "It" (the 486 Digital UV-IR Blocking filter -- my note) "is used mainly on digital and video cameras with CCD sensors without an integrated IR protection filter, because the IR sensitivity of the CCD sensor would otherwise cause color changes and unsharpness." Why then is Leica Camera in this state of desperate denial? Why do they say that lens filters are the permanent fix? Because they cannot fix the problem. It is probably impossible to produce a sensor with an interference-type IR filter that will work over the entire sensor surface. Beyond a certain angle of incidence, i.e. in the corners, the filter effect begins to fall off. This is also why these IR filters do not work well on ultra-wide lenses. ¶ This is one of the reasons why the lens filter 'solution' will not be acceptable to many prospective M8 buyers. Now, when this was clear, the entire M8 project should have been called off. It sems however that nobody had the courage or the authority to do so. It is a situation that I recognise from other enterprises and organisations. Instead, the responsible CEOs just closed their eyes and hoped that the ugly problem would just go away of itself. ¶ It did no such thing. Instead, Leica Camera now has a capsized project, an essentially unsaleable product and faces immense losses due to waste of capital, waste of work done in vain and lost goodwill. This also means that there will likely never be a useful digital M camera. Maybe I am wrong. I do however greatly fear that I am not. I do fervently hope that this will not be the end of Leica. There are always the binoculars of course ... If anybody has any good scientific/technical reasons why I should be wrong, I will be grateful for hearing them. But please, no talk of firmware fixes. No firmware can correct colour errors from some objects only, they can only adjust for general colour casts. Similarly, no post-processing will work. The cure, if any, will have to be in the camera. The sceptical old man from the Age of Flashpowder Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted November 12, 2006 Posted November 12, 2006 Hi lars_bergquist, Take a look here Leica in denial. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
andybarton Posted November 12, 2006 Share #2 Posted November 12, 2006 Enough, already. How many more threads need to be started on this subject? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Olof Posted November 12, 2006 Share #3 Posted November 12, 2006 I cant see there a problem, i mainly take B&W pics. The M8 will be the perfect tool for this. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
george + Posted November 12, 2006 Share #4 Posted November 12, 2006 Oh, for heaven's sake. Yes there is a problem - in certain circumstances. Leica acknowledged it and promised a solution. If you do not believe them, that is your choice. Just don't not buy an M8. Which is a damn nice camera and works well in must circumstances. But please stop this second guessing and moaning. Or, go into the camera business and see if you can do better. :) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lars_bergquist Posted November 12, 2006 Author Share #5 Posted November 12, 2006 Oh, for heaven's sake. Yes there is a problem - in certain circumstances. Leica acknowledged it and promised a solution. :) Well, the point I wanted to make is that they don't. They say the problem isn't really there, and you can fix it by sticking a special filter on all your lenses. How would you fancy the new Tri-Elmar with a 67 mm filter stuck on at the outer end? Also, don't tell me 'that doesn't affect me 'cause I work only in B&W'. The Leica M8 has not been advertised as a B&W only camera. Or as an IR camera, for that matter. The sceptical old man from you-know-when Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
larry Posted November 12, 2006 Share #6 Posted November 12, 2006 Enough, already. How many more threads need to be started on this subject? Andy, I'll second that. These self-important diatribes solve absolutely nothing. Larry Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lars_bergquist Posted November 12, 2006 Author Share #7 Posted November 12, 2006 Advertisement (gone after registration) Andy, I'll second that. These self-important diatribes solve absolutely nothing. Larry Larry, I'm not being self-important. It's just that I have a not inconsiderable investment in Leica M glass, and of course I wonder "wither" and all that. And I thought that I saw one good reason why a fix may in fact be impossible. I note that no-one as yet has offered any arguments of fact -- I only hear that I should stop being unpleasant. A few years ago I blew the whistle, writing in a PM that an IT 'solution' I was supposed to work with really didn't work. I was told that I was an alarmist and should pipe down. A few months later I was proven right -- but then it was too late, and not only was a large publishing project closed down, so was the division that handled it. People had not wanted to listen because all the right people in authority had declared officially that all was well. The scarred old man with flashpowder burns Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
MSmelik Posted November 12, 2006 Share #8 Posted November 12, 2006 Seems to me that not only leica is denial.... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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