A positive note to Leica from those holding off on or returning M8s

[Guest guy_mancuso]

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Graham,

 

Take a look at some of the photos posted here on the the other threads. 99% good shots is not even close.

 

I own my film M and bought the M8 for the rangefinder style, size, and low light.

 

Most of my low-light shots do include a light which will cause banding. This even happens at ISO 320.

 

The magenta issue is always present to some extent, and you really can't fix it yet. I don't even have the partial temporary fix of the IR blocking filter, which does cause other color issues in the corners. This means that I can't rely on the camera for any shot which has to made. In that case, it stays home and I take a camera which will get the shot.

 

Therefore, for the very low percentage of shots that would not actually be affected by the banding, blobs, or magenta it doesn't get used since it is still in the box.

 

Ray

 

 

Ray I have a IR filter for you to play with. Give me a call later today. I have a 52mm with step up's from 46 and 49

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[Jamie Roberts]

{snipped}Quote:

 

{snipped}In the meantime please do not use ISO settings above 640, you can do perfect available light photos like that!

 

Best Regards, Jesko v. Oeynhausen

Quality Management

 

-- Close, but not quite. The banding is still there. You can do wonderful low-ish light stuff with the M8 and ISO 2500, as far as that goes. Now that I have one in my hands, I know that's true.

 

BUT--even at ISO 640--if you shoot a (sodium?) lamp and expose for the subject (either with ISO or exposure), *and* the light is way overexposed at the sensor level, then yes, it will streak.

 

Here's the tip, then. Expose for the light (save the highlights) and push in RAW processing. That seems to make the band a lot less, if not gone. Of course, this isn't always possible or desirable, so we need the fix from Leica, and soon.

 

On the incredibly positive side, the camera actually doesn't shadow band very much at all in underexposed areas, which all my Canons and the DMR does. It also seems to have yards more luminance detail than my 5d when really underexposed.

 

Here's ISO 2500 street shot, no banding, f4 1/20s (!!)

 

 

 

Now here's ISO 640 1/20--lots of almost overexposed lights in the sensor shots (NO banding whatsoever)

 

 

 

Now here's ISO 640 1/20 with over-exposed tungsten--no banding

 

 

Now here's ISO 640 1/45--great band from the overexposed sodium lamp.

 

 

 

BTW--the banding shows up much more with the default M8 profile, because it opens the shadows a bit more properly than this (but is also weird in colour. Just weird--working on that).

 

BTW2--I can process the band out of the last one. But I don't want to, or shouldn't have to: I want the detail on the couple's faces (yes, there is detail. This thing is amazing).

 

All were taken around f4 w the 35 1.4 ASPH.

[mwilliamsphotography]

"Only if you take pictures of black velvet and include the spots in every shot. You had one, didn't you? Were 99% of your pictures affected?"

 

... Only if you take pictures of black velvet? What? LOL.

 

There are all kinds of images posted right here on this forum that have no black velvet in them at all ... but do have deep magenta where it should be black.

 

So, are we to take it that IF Leica does a recall to fix the problem you will keep your current M8?

[clayh]

Dude, look carefully at those shots. Some of them do have banding. The first one you posted, the light in the upper right corner shoots a band to the left. Look at the bricks. I can also see hints of banding in some of the other shots. Look at the third shot: the tungsten light has generated the notorious green blob on the other side of the frame. Part of it is masked because it is in shadow. I had this camera for three days, and it was NOT worth what I paid for it. I returned it. I would have returned a $200 point and shoot that did the same things that the M8 did.

-- Close, but not quite. The banding is still there. You can do wonderful low-ish light stuff with the M8 and ISO 2500, as far as that goes. Now that I have one in my hands, I know that's true.

 

BUT--even at ISO 640--if you shoot a (sodium?) lamp and expose for the subject (either with ISO or exposure), *and* the light is way overexposed at the sensor level, then yes, it will streak.

 

Here's the tip, then. Expose for the light (save the highlights) and push in RAW processing. That seems to make the band a lot less, if not gone. Of course, this isn't always possible or desirable, so we need the fix from Leica, and soon.

 

On the incredibly positive side, the camera actually doesn't shadow band very much at all in underexposed areas, which all my Canons and the DMR does. It also seems to have yards more luminance detail than my 5d when really underexposed.

 

Here's ISO 2500 street shot, no banding, f4 1/20s (!!)

 

 

 

Now here's ISO 640 1/20--lots of almost overexposed lights in the sensor shots (NO banding whatsoever)

 

 

 

Now here's ISO 640 1/20 with over-exposed tungsten--no banding

 

 

Now here's ISO 640 1/45--great band from the overexposed sodium lamp.

 

 

 

BTW--the banding shows up much more with the default M8 profile, because it opens the shadows a bit more properly than this (but is also weird in colour. Just weird--working on that).

 

BTW2--I can process the band out of the last one. But I don't want to, or shouldn't have to: I want the detail on the couple's faces (yes, there is detail. This thing is amazing).

 

All were taken around f4 w the 35 1.4 ASPH.

[marknorton]

And there's more magenta around than I would expect. If that guy's anorak in P3 really that colour?

[marknorton]

Oh, there's a green blob in P1 as well....

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[grober]

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I bought the thing on Monday and was all set to receive it (via UPS) on Thursday, then I read Sean's message about buying filters & mandatory 6-bit coding, etc. We "weren't home" to receive the Man in Brown when he came to the door with the box in his hand. I went to bed quite pissed off, all ready to let UPS carry the camera back to the dealer with plenty of "No thanks!", "Give me my money back!", etc.

 

Then Friday I awoke and remembered that I had planned for this event for two years, had sold my M7 and various lenses to create the necessary cash, etc.

 

After fooling around with the camera last night and experiencing many epiphanies, you'll now never be able to peel it away from me. So, here we go: sucking it up one more time and hoping that Leica does the right thing WITHOUT inflicting undo additional costs on we stoic M8 Pioneers.

 

Not a good negotiating position but then when I first saw that cute girl arcross campus (now my lovely wife) I was a complete gonner then too! And still am.

 

Annother tale from the Leica addiction ward...

 

-g