gogopix Posted November 9, 2006 Share #1 Posted November 9, 2006 Advertisement (gone after registration) I do not like the idea of a filter on a lens, and it seems that a firmware fix could take time and screw up speed and other good image characteristics. I would suggest Leica workwith Phase One for a solution similar to the de-moire filter for photoshop. We all live with: 1. moire 2. metamerizm (big time, except me! I use a REAL printer, dye sub. Looks like a photograph, remember?) 3. For many years 'dots' ninkjeti prints' 4. Flare 5. WB issue 6. NOISE! and several others. The situation for magenta can be diagnosed easily, it is in a narrow resulting image range, relative to overall color balance It is LARGE area (on this point, current images can be fixed by selecting the color and selectively re mapping to black- a known technique) Sure, it is not perfect, but preserves other qualities of image, not the least is IR photography potential and sharper B&W, Anyway, this is hardly a toy. The lenses if anything here outperform film M's in definition, the R lenses in clarity (non retro lenses?) and are two or three steps better than what the perfectionists MOSTLY go to leica for, the lenses (though DMR-5D comparisons show the big advantage of the dynamic range of the Leica digitals) So, I hope this can be quick (try the selective substitution. I will but have business right now to attend to) and Leica I am sure is already looking at tis. My vote is for POST fix, not filters or FW) Lots of the forum posters talk of the 'professional need' Dont you want the top quality ultimately? What other camera will give PJ a first step in digital? We need to encourage a company like Leica to hold against the tide of mediocraty we see in everything from clothes to food The largers companies respond ONLY to the max profit, and the consumer gets what he deserves, and I for one do not like it. So am I fighting against the negitivism here? You bet, because I am afraid the grumbling (noergeln) WILL succeed and those who want quality will suffer. regards Victor Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted November 9, 2006 Posted November 9, 2006 Hi gogopix, Take a look here Magenta? treat like moire. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
pfogle Posted November 9, 2006 Share #2 Posted November 9, 2006 I have to say that I'm amazed at the rationalizations that go on in these threads. Surely, this is simply a case of a product that did not have sufficient beta testing. In time it will be modified, the issues fixed and a new version released. Now, I realise a lot of people got very excited about this camera, and are impatient to get a good working version. But, hey, this is the real world, and we just have to wait until the engineers get it right. It's no use speculating about what and when, we just have to bide our time till they come out with the goods. These are not trivial issues for a working photographer. I doubt if there are any quick fixes. I for one never use filters on my lenses, and I certainly won't buy a camera that requires me to because they got the internal filter wrong. Simple as that. My paid work (when I had some!) was fashion and portrait in color, and from the samples I've seen, this camera is not useable. Period. YMMV Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
gogopix Posted November 9, 2006 Author Share #3 Posted November 9, 2006 It is hardly the full fix, but 10 seconds in 'replace color' in photoshop can help, actually mroe than the filters Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/8823-magenta-treat-like-moire/?do=findComment&comment=88740'>More sharing options...
gogopix Posted November 9, 2006 Author Share #4 Posted November 9, 2006 and just to show it is not just WB. here I juiced the saturation and adjusted for skin tone black stays black so I am sure Leica Phase Jenoptic can fix this withoutan IR filter You might notice the red in the neck strap and the skin can be quite red w/o affecting the fix Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/8823-magenta-treat-like-moire/?do=findComment&comment=88745'>More sharing options...
gogopix Posted November 9, 2006 Author Share #5 Posted November 9, 2006 here'sthe other one.Ileft bright, may be more contrast Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/8823-magenta-treat-like-moire/?do=findComment&comment=88748'>More sharing options...
gogopix Posted November 9, 2006 Author Share #6 Posted November 9, 2006 and if youwant warmer tones (That was color balanced above) you stop here One click about 10 seconds shorter than posting a complaint! :-) Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/8823-magenta-treat-like-moire/?do=findComment&comment=88755'>More sharing options...
FastFashnReloaded Posted November 9, 2006 Share #7 Posted November 9, 2006 Advertisement (gone after registration) and if youwant warmer tones (That was color balanced above) you stop here One click about 10 seconds shorter than posting a complaint! :-) Thanks, so obviously it CAN be fixed. I really think that there was some change just before production that caused this, either in software or a resistor value or something. Everything in a digicam is an interpretation of the real world, just as Velvia offers a different interpretation from Kodachrome. The firmware just isn't interpreting things correctly. It will be fixed, quickly I suspect, even if the early adopters have to send their cameras in for a tweak, as did the first Nikon D200 owners. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamie Roberts Posted November 9, 2006 Share #8 Posted November 9, 2006 Victor-- Nice, but unfortunately 10s per shot (assuming you open and close them without overhead) in PS--can't be an action because you're selecting different stuff-- ....times 500 shots in my typical wedding workflow (what, the groom isn't in all of them? OK--350 shots) ....times 350 shots ...equals 3500 seconds in total, for every wedding. Ok, so I add just about *an hour* of manual processing time (actually more like 2, given the variables) to correct something I shouldn't have to correct? All because I want to use an M8? Hmmm. I think not. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
gogopix Posted November 9, 2006 Author Share #9 Posted November 9, 2006 Dear Jamie If this were a development step in C1 you would do in ONE shot and apply to all. It would likely not even be noticed in the normal DNG>tiff development The only time you woud change is when the lightchanges, andyou DO make SOME adjustments, no? or you shoot jpg? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
gogopix Posted November 9, 2006 Author Share #10 Posted November 9, 2006 Victor-- Nice, but unfortunately 10s per shot (assuming you open and close them without overhead) in PS--can't be an action because you're selecting different stuff-- ....times 500 shots in my typical wedding workflow (what, the groom isn't in all of them? OK--350 shots) ....times 350 shots ...equals 3500 seconds in total, for every wedding. Ok, so I add just about *an hour* of manual processing time (actually more like 2, given the variables) to correct something I shouldn't have to correct? All because I want to use an M8? Hmmm. I think not. Yes, last I heard, 3500 seconds was less than one hour! and it is certainly your choice. If you find a shoter workflow, with as good results, whywouldn't you go that route I am only trying to get the M8 liking 'hand wringers' to reconsider! :-) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
booggerg Posted November 9, 2006 Share #11 Posted November 9, 2006 the samples of the gear heads at the Leica booth is horrible. The corrected version is just as bad as the original, if not worse. What if you have a plate of grapes and a magentacized black cloth in the same shot? You're going to have black grapes. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter41951 Posted November 9, 2006 Share #12 Posted November 9, 2006 Victor, many thanks. I've had a go with the piano shot and achieved similar results to yours. However, I had to sample about 8 times to remove all the magenta. What can I do to do it in one step? Thanks Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
carstenw Posted November 9, 2006 Share #13 Posted November 9, 2006 This looks like a nice blanket solution, but the lady in mauve will not be happy because she is now in mourning! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
gogopix Posted November 9, 2006 Author Share #14 Posted November 9, 2006 you need to increase the fuzziness (I used about 130) to get all the tones it really wasnt a full solution, just tryong to get people to understand that this CAn be fixed and pretty straightforwardly On th magenta grape, they aren't :-) they will have enough green and blue to STAY PUT the way replace color works is to find the RGB, NOT to just reduce the red. It is why all the other red, including skin tone stays the same ad this is just the STOCK replace color with a little thought the cast here can be diagnosed and a small action can clean up. It is actually simpler than color balance and no, Carsten, the mauve will be out of the fix range as well will there be rare color loss? maybe, but we are talking a VERY narrow range of the 65,000 colors that are being changed. The castiquite TONE specific Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter41951 Posted November 9, 2006 Share #15 Posted November 9, 2006 Much quicker with 130, thanks. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter41951 Posted November 9, 2006 Share #16 Posted November 9, 2006 I've just now "done" the photos of the jacket, the Mamiya, and the Leicas, with pretty good one click results. Many thanks again for raising this solution. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter41951 Posted November 9, 2006 Share #17 Posted November 9, 2006 The jacket (trying an attachment, so please forgive should I fail) Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/8823-magenta-treat-like-moire/?do=findComment&comment=88895'>More sharing options...
Peter41951 Posted November 9, 2006 Share #18 Posted November 9, 2006 The original: Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/8823-magenta-treat-like-moire/?do=findComment&comment=88898'>More sharing options...
Peter41951 Posted November 9, 2006 Share #19 Posted November 9, 2006 The Mamiya Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/8823-magenta-treat-like-moire/?do=findComment&comment=88899'>More sharing options...
Peter41951 Posted November 9, 2006 Share #20 Posted November 9, 2006 The Leicas Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/8823-magenta-treat-like-moire/?do=findComment&comment=88903'>More sharing options...
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