Samir Jahjah Posted November 8, 2006 Share #21 Posted November 8, 2006 Advertisement (gone after registration) I don't mean to discount everyone's concerns, but we do need a sense of perspective given the significant development Leica has put forth. Plus, bad rumoring is bad for all of us. We are beyond bad rumoring, but facts. Customers feedbacks show that the camera is capable of outstanding picture quality, on par with the Leica lenses, but also they showed some significant flaws with some units. Customers and those in line to get one should raise their concerns and tell Leica what their expectations are! Also, I can imagine that Leica's shareholders are now probably inquiring what went wrong, what the fix would cost, and how QC did not catch these issues before. I guess some must be having a bad time at Leica... I want my Leica M8 badly...but not at all costs! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted November 8, 2006 Posted November 8, 2006 Hi Samir Jahjah, Take a look here M8 Bashing. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
alexr Posted November 8, 2006 Share #22 Posted November 8, 2006 Well, to be honest there was a comment in another thread by LADP i think. But I would not want him edited out at all. I think some of us are trying to help leica by supporting them all the way in this time by playing down the problems a bit, and others (me included) who are trying to help by stressing that yes it is a problem and yes we are worried, specially after waiting with such anticipation for two years. Both groups have the same thing at heart, their beloved Leicas. Just different strategies. I am sure we all want the same thing: a fantastic Leica M8 we can use coupled with our fantastic Leica M lenses. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
gareth_c Posted November 8, 2006 Share #23 Posted November 8, 2006 ...Both groups have the same thing at heart, their beloved Leicas. Just different strategies. I am sure we all want the same thing: a fantastic Leica M8 we can use coupled with our fantastic Leica M lenses. You are probably right. But, taking my leica love away for a moment there are still the cold hard facts that remain. I so want leice first just to release a statement confirming an issue. I don't need an answer immediately. But, having just read Sean's 'official statement' thread i am assuming (perhaps incorrectly) that leica's final response is the need for IR filters + coded lenses + firmware. IF, that turns out to be the final answer on this then I don't see, for me, an acceptable solution and will stick with my R-D1. I just hope that isn't the case. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
carstenw Posted November 8, 2006 Share #24 Posted November 8, 2006 You are probably right. But, taking my leica love away for a moment there are still the cold hard facts that remain. I so want leice first just to release a statement confirming an issue. I don't need an answer immediately. But, having just read Sean's 'official statement' thread i am assuming (perhaps incorrectly) that leica's final response is the need for IR filters + coded lenses + firmware. IF, that turns out to be the final answer on this then I don't see, for me, an acceptable solution and will stick with my R-D1. I just hope that isn't the case. Gareth, while I agree that this would be a disappointing solution, I would encourage you to actually try the camera before rejecting it. It is wonderful, even if I had to send it back for focus adjustment. I don't like the idea of filters, but quite frankly, I like the idea of sending it back even less. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
LADP Posted November 8, 2006 Share #25 Posted November 8, 2006 Well, to be honest there was a comment in another thread by LADP i think. But I would not want him edited out at all. My post in the other thread can be read here... http://www.leica-camera-user.com/digital-forum/8890-back-into-box-goes-4.html#post87716 Alex, by quoting your post, I did not mean to offend you, and I apologize if you took offense to it. I saw what I viewed as a contradiction in your statements. Clearly we se it differently. My point in quoting you was not to bash you, or anyone else. I felt the word "disaster" when applied to the M8's problems, and Leica's response may be a bit harsh and premature, and can easily be construed as "not "being calm" or "ultra positive." If one reads my whole post, I think they'll find the point of my post was NOT to bash anyone, but rather to urge people to refrain from jumping to conclusions about anyproblems that exist with this new product. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
gareth_c Posted November 8, 2006 Share #26 Posted November 8, 2006 Believe me I will be testing one. I had ordered an M8 but "provisionally" cancelled today and told my dealer I will call them tomorrow after having had some time to consider. In reality I need to get my hands on one to try (and most likely will fall head over heels for it and cave in!) My problem is that I was an SLR user previously, along with owning the digilux 2 and bought 3 Dlux 2's (one for me, one for my wife and one for work). I have since got in to Rangefinders via an Epson R-D1, 3 leica lenses, a couple of voigtlanders and canons. The R-D1 has been a headache in itself, but I knew about the issues when I bought it but saw the M8 as a clear path for future upgrading. To even imagine that I bought all this in vain isn't worth thinking about. Most of the time I shoot black and white anyway but thats not the point. I want a camera that i feel has no big issues (ie not fixable by firmware) and that is made by a company that can deliver and act as I expect. Right now, neither of those seem to be happening. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
alexr Posted November 8, 2006 Share #27 Posted November 8, 2006 Advertisement (gone after registration) Gareth, fully agree with you. i too woulnd not consider filters a vaible solution. We need Leica to manage this crisis (for want of a better word) professionally and come out with some ackowledging statement asap. I suspect a recall might be in order. Having waited for two yeras i would accept having to wait some more time. Not forver of course. But no, filters would not do. It would be the first pro (or amateur for that matter) digital that needs filters to take a pictures all other cams can take with a naked lens. i donàt think this will fly. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
alexr Posted November 8, 2006 Share #28 Posted November 8, 2006 I know LADP, no offence taken whatsoever, and I responded trying to clarify my earlier post. I understand your position, disaster might be a big word, true, but after waiting so long you might also understand the bitter disappointment: for the last two years i have gone every month into Classic camera in london to ask for news...i desperatley want the M8 to be a success. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
gareth_c Posted November 8, 2006 Share #29 Posted November 8, 2006 I put up with the R-D1 problems and the on-going issue of support (or utter lack of it) because I fell in love with rangefinder photography and saw the M8 as the long term solution and Leica as the company that Epson wouldn't/couldn't be. I promised myself that I wouldn't let the Epson situation happen to me again. I'm only an amateur but as such I want my experience to be nothing but a pleasure. I really want leica to succeed as a company but I dislike them staying quiet on this matter and will object even more if their stance is to deny a problem exists. True, I might get mostly joy out of an M8 but I simply would not support any company that acted this way or made me nervous that at any time, the next shot might be the dud. Quite where this would leave me i can't say. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
woodyspedden Posted November 9, 2006 Share #30 Posted November 9, 2006 We ought to archive all of these threads and then come back in six months to see what is the (then) current situation with the M8's. I am as frustrated as everyone else that I plonked down $5K for a camera with such major flaws. (Thank God i didn't sell my M3 or M6's in anticipation of a "perfect" digital camera). I believe that Leica will come up with a rational solution because if not they will be out of the digital camera business. Who will come back for an R10 or M9 if they don't properly support the folks who have put down their hard cash (and in large amounts!) for the M8. I think that we must all realize that the beauty of the M8 is in its mechanics, feel, quality etc but remember that Leica is a newbie in the world of digital sensors and electronics. They had Imacon to help with the DMR but they are more on their own with the M8. Again I believe they will go quickly up the learning curve and fix the problems we currently describe. Kodak must also be in a bit of a tizzy because it is their sensor that is blooming purple. With the help of Kodak and others Leica will have a solution. Perhaps even Panasonic will lend their considerable muscle to help solve this problem. After all what Pansasonic doesn't need is people overreacting because the name of leica is attached to their products. Just my humble opinion woody Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
R10dreamer Posted November 9, 2006 Share #31 Posted November 9, 2006 Nice points Woody. I am still wondering why Leica can't simply coat the sensor. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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