wattsy Posted November 8, 2006 Share #101 Posted November 8, 2006 Advertisement (gone after registration) However, I do not see how this can fix the problem fotografr had. Indeed, I think that's the real problem. The profile presumably can only correct for a 'global' cast whereas the IR/magenta problem is a 'local' problem and 'material' specific - i.e. different materials of the same apparent colour (most notably it seems is black) are affected to different degrees within the same image. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted November 8, 2006 Posted November 8, 2006 Hi wattsy, Take a look here purple RD1 shot with M8. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
Peter41951 Posted November 8, 2006 Share #102 Posted November 8, 2006 Forgive my interfering, but as far as the vegetables are concerned, wouldn't you need a black one, which is really purple/magenta, to show the cast? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sean_reid Posted November 8, 2006 Share #103 Posted November 8, 2006 Yes, I agree with you and as you know, C1 does this already by offering several profiles for the same camera but nothing automatic as far as I know. My quick tests with custom profiles leads me to believe this would work fine. However, I do not see how this can fix the problem fotografr had. Hi Pascal, Thanks for the responses. *If* this worked then it might work as follows. 1. Marc sets the WB via eyedropper in C1, program notes a specific color temp 2. Based on the camera's known IR behavior at this color temp, C1 applies a color correction designed specifically to correct the cast. Overall WB does not change. Again, I'm just thinking this through in case there is a profile solution. Input from others who understand what I'm saying always welcome. Cheers, Sean Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sean_reid Posted November 8, 2006 Share #104 Posted November 8, 2006 Indeed, I think that's the real problem. The profile presumably can only correct for a 'global' cast whereas the IR/magenta problem is a 'local' problem and 'material' specific - i.e. different materials of the same apparent colour (most notably it seems is black) are affected to different degrees within the same image. I'm thinking of a local correction defined by color and/or tonality. Cheers, Sean Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pascal_meheut Posted November 8, 2006 Share #105 Posted November 8, 2006 Can you test this ? I mean, do you have the software and know-how to try it ? If so, I'm of course interested by the results. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
alexr Posted November 8, 2006 Share #106 Posted November 8, 2006 By no means am I a corporate apologist, but I trust Leica will get this right, and if it requires me to send my M8 in, so be it. I had to bring in my car the week after I bought it for a faulty switch to be replaced, and a week after that to fix a problem with a seat belt. I had to send in a PowerBook after getting it because of a bad screen. And on and on. For better or worse, this is reality for consumers these days. I'm sorry, but a simple street scene photographed by a 2006 pro digital camera where black coats turn purple is a disaster. The fringing and banding could be put down to 1.0 firmware, this is just too much for me. A 5000$ camera made in 2006 that cannot reproduce synthetic black fabric is unacceptable. Yes we buy products that may need fixes, but your PowerBook was ONE. These are issues affecting all M8s, it seems. What happens when a new car comes out and all models have the same problem? They are recalled by the manufacturer immediately. And so it should be. This IR filter issue is no small thing, it is very worrying. Of course I love Leicas. Would not have waited for years for the M8 if i didn't. But love only goes so far. Or do we need to recall the story of japanese cars in the 70s and american-british cars? I love my 1962 MGB, lots of character, but it breaks every time i use it. It's ok. I have a Honda for real life, the MG is a toy. If Leica wants to make expensive toys these problems are acceptable, if irritating. But if they intend to make tools for professionals the release of the M8 in its current form was a mistake. I hope and think they will fix it (if not the M8, the M9 will come and it will be perfect perhaps, just like the M6 came to solve all the issues the M5 had) I am just angry that I have more waiting before me...that's all. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sean_reid Posted November 8, 2006 Share #107 Posted November 8, 2006 Advertisement (gone after registration) Forgive my interfering, but as far as the vegetables are concerned, wouldn't you need a black one, which is really purple/magenta, to show the cast? There's a true black on the WhiBal card I photographed with them. I'll check that today. Cheers, Sean Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sean_reid Posted November 8, 2006 Share #108 Posted November 8, 2006 Can you test this ? I mean, do you have the software and know-how to try it ? If so, I'm of course interested by the results. I'm not a color expert but I have a friend who is and who used to work for C1. We expect to discuss this later today and I'll know more. Cheers, Sean Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
innerimager Posted November 8, 2006 Share #109 Posted November 8, 2006 Hi Pascal, Thanks for the responses. *If* this worked then it might work as follows. 1. Marc sets the WB via eyedropper in C1, program notes a specific color temp 2. Based on the camera's known IR behavior at this color temp, C1 applies a color correction designed specifically to correct the cast. Overall WB does not change. Again, I'm just thinking this through in case there is a profile solution. Input from others who understand what I'm saying always welcome. Cheers, Sean Sean- I think it won't work because color temp will only be one variable. The subject's IR absorbing-reflecting characteristics will be another, I think stronger variable that will not be detectable of course. best...Peter Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
M'Ate Posted November 8, 2006 Share #110 Posted November 8, 2006 Of course I love Leicas. Would not have waited for years for the M8 if i didn't. But love only goes so far. Or do we need to recall the story of japanese cars in the 70s and american-british cars? I love my 1962 MGB, lots of character, but it breaks every time i use it. It's ok. I have a Honda for real life, the MG is a toy. If Leica wants to make expensive toys these problems are acceptable, if irritating. But if they intend to make tools for professionals the release of the M8 in its current form was a mistake. I hope and think they will fix it (if not the M8, the M9 will come and it will be perfect perhaps, just like the M6 came to solve all the issues the M5 had) I am just angry that I have more waiting before me...that's all. Edit ABr Bandwidth is cheap, but reptitition is boring. I'm disappointed too, Edit ABr Say it once, say it loud ...... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sean_reid Posted November 8, 2006 Share #111 Posted November 8, 2006 Sean- I think it won't work because color temp will only be one variable. The subject's IR absorbing-reflecting characteristics will be another, I think stronger variable that will not be detectable of course. best...Peter "The subject's IR absorbing-reflecting characteristics will be another" That's the million dollar question. I'm interested in seeing if that ends up being the case or not. Cheers, Sean Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
gogopix Posted November 8, 2006 Share #112 Posted November 8, 2006 If our eyes had the gamut of the M8, we would actually SEE what you are calling magenta,as a color, not black. The reason we see black is that the IR isnt 'visible' (thatis doesn't trigger those rods and cones) So, maybe this is a feature, or a great camera for snakes! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
abrewer Posted November 8, 2006 Share #113 Posted November 8, 2006 Just a reminder, please don't personalize your frustrations about the camera by taking it out on another member, a reviewer, etc. The Forum is dedicated to a free, fair airing of everyone's thoughts and experiences on the M8 and any issues that surround the camera. Long may Leica grant us this privilege to vent, as well as celebrate, with their financial support. They will figure it out and make good--no doubt. Thanks. Allan Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
kidigital Posted November 8, 2006 Share #114 Posted November 8, 2006 LOL, Victor. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
B&W Posted November 8, 2006 Share #115 Posted November 8, 2006 Someone famous once said "All companies make mistakes. Good companies fix them." Sure, but good companies usually have a PR and information strategy that normally is open…. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
abrewer Posted November 8, 2006 Share #116 Posted November 8, 2006 Sure, but good companies usually have a PR and information strategy that normally is open…. Not to forget, Leica pays the bills for the bandwidth to let all share their information on this site. That looks pretty open to me. I'm sure we'll see something very soon from them, possibly here first. Thanks. Allan Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
booggerg Posted November 8, 2006 Share #117 Posted November 8, 2006 Edit ABr No personal accusations please. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
innerimager Posted November 8, 2006 Share #118 Posted November 8, 2006 Not to forget, Leica pays the bills for the bandwidth to let all share their information on this site. That looks pretty open to me. I'm sure we'll see something very soon from them, possibly here first. Thanks. Allan I'm amazed, Leica supports this site....wow. I've used this term in other posts/forums about the difference dealing with Leica and the DSLR companies I've bought into....."refreshing"! best...Peter Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ho_co Posted November 8, 2006 Share #119 Posted November 8, 2006 Could you point me to the appropriate official Leica link? JP-- I'm in error. I thought I had seen that on their website, but I was apparently thinking of the citation of their note at http://www.outbackphoto.com/reviews/equipment/leica_m8/Leica_M8_review.html#, posted 11/5. My apology. I should have double checked the facts before posting that. --HC Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Maio Posted November 8, 2006 Share #120 Posted November 8, 2006 . . and can try it and perhaps point the way to what must be done? I called a couple of local camera stores, and they don't carry them in stock. 37MM STANDARD HOT MIRROR - Tiffen.Com Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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