harmsr Posted November 5, 2006 Share #21 Posted November 5, 2006 Advertisement (gone after registration) Marc, The issues are when using RAW. I am using C1 Pro 3.7.6 with the default Leica M8 generic profile. I have to do a slight color adjust towards blue/cyan to remove the magenta. Banding is obvious in the RAW file if you have a bright light and then mid to dark tones surrouding it. Night shots of a street with bars and neon looked horrible, due to banding. Ray Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted November 5, 2006 Posted November 5, 2006 Hi harmsr, Take a look here M8 Auto WB issues?. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
j. borger Posted November 5, 2006 Share #22 Posted November 5, 2006 Marc, The issues are when using RAW. I am using C1 Pro 3.7.6 with the default Leica M8 generic profile. I have to do a slight color adjust towards blue/cyan to remove the magenta. Banding is obvious in the RAW file if you have a bright light and then mid to dark tones surrouding it. Night shots of a street with bars and neon looked horrible, due to banding. Ray Could you please retry with Adobe RGB as profile instead of the M8 generic profile ......... in my experience the Magenta is far less of a problem using this profile .... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ustein Posted November 5, 2006 Share #23 Posted November 5, 2006 Aperture Version 1.5 recognizes DNGs. Interesting I imported some M8 DNGs by reference into Aperture 1.5.1 and it shows only small previews. Uwe Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sdai Posted November 5, 2006 Share #24 Posted November 5, 2006 Interesting I imported some M8 DNGs by reference into Aperture 1.5.1 and it shows only small previews. You're right ... Uwe. The only Leica Aperture fully supports now is the Digilux 2. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mwilliamsphotography Posted November 5, 2006 Share #25 Posted November 5, 2006 Yes, I said it was my error. Aperture only shows small reviews. I'll try the type shot mentioned concerning banding as soon as I can. By that measure, shouldn't my interior shot with the lamp have caused banding in the surrounding dark windows and walls? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
harmsr Posted November 5, 2006 Share #26 Posted November 5, 2006 J Borger - I'm not sure what you are trying to describe. I have the color space in the camera set as Adobe RGB. Within C1 Pro 3.7.6, I am on the white balance page where it says ICC profile. For the profile I am selecting the M8. I do not have an option to select an Adobe RGB ICC profile. Am I missing something here? Ray Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
j. borger Posted November 5, 2006 Share #27 Posted November 5, 2006 Advertisement (gone after registration) J Borger - I'm not sure what you are trying to describe. I have the color space in the camera set as Adobe RGB. Within C1 Pro 3.7.6, I am on the white balance page where it says ICC profile. For the profile I am selecting the M8. I do not have an option to select an Adobe RGB ICC profile. Am I missing something here? Ray Ray, In the headers of Capture One Le there is a menu called workflow .. there you can select the option "show colormanagement settings" .... in this submenu you have first "cameraproduct": probably set to M8, next comes "camera" ... also default set to m8 (and this is a colorprofile that can be changed to adobe RGB, a profile of any other camera, a dedicated B&W profile or whatever profile). If you change the profile under camera from m8 to Adobe RGB .... i am very much free of magenta cast. So my hypothesis is the M8 colorprofile is just not good! Just tell me if i am wrong or do stupid things in Capture One .. because that converter is new to me. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
adan Posted November 5, 2006 Share #28 Posted November 5, 2006 I don't have my M8 yet, the few dngs I have were made with firmware 0.2, and I neglected to shoot a gretag/Macbeth card when I had the chance with an M8. But I do have a couple of ideas y'all might consider while I wait for my M8 to show up. 1) ONE method for shuttered cameras (as opposed to live-view digicams) to determine white balance is by using some of the "extra" pixels outside the edge of the recorded actual image area. Given: a) the falloff still likely present to some extent using short-focus RF lenses, and the offset microlenses - could these edge pixels be getting varying information depending on aperture (since aperture affects traditional vignetting, even though it has no effect on 'digital' vignetting)? This might explain the white-balance shifts with aperture. 2) Since I began using RAW a year ago, I have only had the chance to do my own color calibrations with two cameras, a demo DMR and my Sony R1. But in both cases I found the color improved (to my taste) significantly after "doing it myself" calibration-wise and ignoring what the Adobe and/or Imacon/Leica/Kodak/Sony engineers provided as canned profiles. I found even the DMR to give nasty color unless I used MY DMR profile (skies 'way too cyan, among other things). 3) In addition, I NEVER use any of the "canned" white-balance settings in the pull-down tabs, including "AUTO". I either use "AS SHOT", or set the WB myself using the WB eyedropper, or default to 4800 Kelvin, occasionally with a minus-5 (towards green) tint. I do agree that the M8 images shown here so far often have had a magenta shift, and so do some of my V. 0.2 M8 images. And that therefore there was, and still appears to be, some color calibration issues. I guess my experience is that I never really expect the manfacturer's specs to be what _I_ want - anymore than I used Kodak's, Ilford's, or Fuji's "official" ISO and development times in my film days. I adjusted them to match the results I wanted - and I plan to do the same in digital work. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
andrewrossphotographs Posted November 5, 2006 Author Share #29 Posted November 5, 2006 Andrew: In your WB test did you use the motor drive and fire off a series of shots quickly? The DMR has a bug in the firmware regarding WB. The first shot will be correct and the next in a series will be wrong. This only occurs when firing a burst of shots and not on single shot mode. I am just wondering if the M8 has the same behavior. Hi Rob Intersting and good point with the DMR, yes I did use the "c" mode for the test, so what sort of bug does the DMR have in that respect and is it fixable via firmware? The last I heard from Leica distributor out here (Hong Kong) was there would be a delay in shipping because of a WB firmware problem that needed to be fixed, perhaps more work is needed. I agree with the other post that it looks like the firmware still needs tweaking with the banding and WB issue and it is probably just firmware related. Cheers Andrew Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sdai Posted November 5, 2006 Share #30 Posted November 5, 2006 So my hypothesis is the M8 colorprofile is just not good! Just tell me if i am wrong or do stupid things in Capture One .. because that converter is new to me. Hi, Han ... I'm in Frankfurt right now and I don't have the PS stuff loaded on my laptop. But if you're selecting the first item "AdobeRGB" from the drop down menu that's just a generic color profile without any intentional bias in the color map - so what you did is "correct" for your purpose. I'm signing off now ... will catch ya tomorrow. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
andrewrossphotographs Posted November 5, 2006 Author Share #31 Posted November 5, 2006 I've experienced exactly the same AWB 'issue' during our tests with v1.0.5 month ago, seems this is not addressed yet in the shippment firmware. Having experienced that, I found the dng WB to be very accurate and neutral to the scene and C1 apparently did a good job in its M8 default color profile. Can't figure out the AWB is hardware or firmware issue at the moment. With the high spotlight banding issue together, all we hope is Leica can respond instantly to keep the M8 flying high. Frankly, I can accept these issue to be fixed by fireware updates, though it is certainly not a pleasant experience for a 5 grand pro-level M. Best Matthew Matthew I think you are probably right, overall the WB seemed very nice for general shooting and the overall feel is nice, but I do expect consistency over a sequence of shots out of camera, that bugs me, if you are showing a client the same shot in a sequence and you shot it Auto WB, then its not great to show some looking blue, some looking yellow in the sequence when the shots are the same, Ofcourse you can shoot with fixed WB, but the level of difference should not be there even with Auto WB. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
stunsworth Posted November 5, 2006 Share #32 Posted November 5, 2006 Don't know of I'm missing something - more likely than not :-) - but if you shoot RAW and use Photoshop you can correct the WB in one shot and then open the others and select 'same as previous conversion', this will give you the same WB and exposure details as the previous file. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
andrewrossphotographs Posted November 5, 2006 Author Share #33 Posted November 5, 2006 I don't have my M8 yet, the few dngs I have were made with firmware 0.2, and I neglected to shoot a gretag/Macbeth card when I had the chance with an M8. But I do have a couple of ideas y'all might consider while I wait for my M8 to show up. 1) ONE method for shuttered cameras (as opposed to live-view digicams) to determine white balance is by using some of the "extra" pixels outside the edge of the recorded actual image area. Given: a) the falloff still likely present to some extent using short-focus RF lenses, and the offset microlenses - could these edge pixels be getting varying information depending on aperture (since aperture affects traditional vignetting, even though it has no effect on 'digital' vignetting)? This might explain the white-balance shifts with aperture. It would be interesting to find out a little more from Leica if that is the how WB is read, other manufacturers like Nikon use something like an "ambient 1005-pixel RGB sensor" as well as the invercome to balance WB and in particular this improves Auto WB. The overall look of WB is very nice, but its the inconsistency, but as suggested in this thread, a similar problem also exists with the DMR.... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
andrewrossphotographs Posted November 5, 2006 Author Share #34 Posted November 5, 2006 Don't know of I'm missing something - more likely than not :-) - but if you shoot RAW and use Photoshop you can correct the WB in one shot and then open the others and select 'same as previous conversion', this will give you the same WB and exposure details as the previous file. Of course that's very true! But would it bother you if you are shooting some shots of the same subject and then find from camera that some are underexposed by a stop and some appear overexposed by a stop, even though the subject/lighting has not changed? The same consistency is needed for WB too. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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