lxlim Posted October 28, 2006 Share #1 Posted October 28, 2006 Advertisement (gone after registration) I'm new to this forum. Thanks to the M8, I'm considering the Leica seriously for my work and a new subscriber to Sean's website because of it I'm doing some due diligence investigating the viabiity of adding the M8. Canon professional user and have gone digital for some time now. Looking at: M8 with new M lenses such as the 24f2.8, 35f2, 50f2, 75f2 and the 135f3.4. Does anyone know the rated shutter lifespan of the new Leica M8? If not(I expect not, Leica seems to be highly conservative in giving this sort of info), how do Leica users rate the reliability of the previous M series shutters from the heavy user viewpoint (about 30,000 frames per year). Newbie question I know! How much variations in the aperture can I expect from the different Leica lenses? Say f4 of a 35mm f2 and the f4 of a 75mm f2. Would it be plus minus 1/3 stop or more? Alex Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted October 28, 2006 Posted October 28, 2006 Hi lxlim, Take a look here Need Leica and M8 info. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
ho_co Posted October 28, 2006 Share #2 Posted October 28, 2006 Alex--May I say, your question may be an indication of how new you are to the idea of Leica? I worked for more than 20 years with Leica (both retail and wholesale) and never heard anyone ask either about the durability or consistency of the shutter or about the consistency of aperture. Example: The Tri-Elmar 28-35-50 f/4. If you set an aperture, then switch to another focal length, the meter and the exposure don't change. Same if you go to another lens and set the same aperture. The M8 is the first new shutter the M has had since it arrived on the scene in 1954. That first one is out of date by today's standards--1/50s flash synch, horizontal-travel cloth. But I've never heard of one wearing out. About the worst that could happen to it is that it could grow fungus if it sat unused in the tropics for a while. The M's have probably been the least troublesome cameras on the market; the M8 is all new except for the basic rangefinder, so time will tell--but look at the others on the forum who have long used Leica professionally: They're all ready to jump today. My personal feeling is that you have nothing to worry about. Be sure you like the feel and operation of the M camera. If you do, go for it. Respectfully, --HC Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lxlim Posted October 28, 2006 Author Share #3 Posted October 28, 2006 Thanks, Howard. Appreciate your reply. Yes very very new to the Leica. My main concern is the poor support in my country and how much post production adjustment to the images I will need to do in adjusting the tones. Your post is very reassuring. Btw, does the 6 bit coding update the M8 which focal length is in use with the Tri-Elmars or does it give it just give the EXIF which lens is in use? Useful to me when I want to extract all the images with a certain focal length out for separate processing. Most threads seems to indicate lens rather than focal length in use. Alex Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
waterlenz Posted October 28, 2006 Share #4 Posted October 28, 2006 I worked for more than 20 years with Leica (both retail and wholesale) and never heard anyone ask either about the durability or consistency of the shutter or about the consistency of aperture. --HC Digital is a 'new' medium and has spawned new needs, expectations, questions etc. I would say these were very 'digital' questions. For example, a number of people have actually worn out the shutters in dSLRs in just a couple years of usage. The number of exposures is now an important parameter for judging a secondhand body. One may not take as many pix with the M8, however, no 8 fps. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
waterlenz Posted October 28, 2006 Share #5 Posted October 28, 2006 Thanks, Howard. Appreciate your reply. Yes very very new to the Leica. My main concern is the poor support in my country and how much post production adjustment to the images I will need to do in adjusting the tones. Your post is very reassuring. Btw, does the 6 bit coding update the M8 which focal length is in use with the Tri-Elmars or does it give it just give the EXIF which lens is in use? Useful to me when I want to extract all the images with a certain focal length out for separate processing. Most threads seems to indicate lens rather than focal length in use. Alex It is lens and not focal length specific. E.g., specific codes for the various lenses of the same FL. I recall seeing a posting decoding some of the possible codes to certain lenses. However, the focal length is a specific attribute of the non Tri-Elmar lenses. Leica is not allowing ex-if posting on this site, yet. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
marknorton Posted October 28, 2006 Share #6 Posted October 28, 2006 Btw, does the 6 bit coding update the M8 which focal length is in use with the Tri-Elmars or does it give it just give the EXIF which lens is in use? Useful to me when I want to extract all the images with a certain focal length out for separate processing. Most threads seems to indicate lens rather than focal length in use. I wouldn't worry about support. Leica has an excellent reputation for support and proudly boasts it can fix any M ever made - from more than 50 years ago. If support in Singapore doesn't meet your needs, Germany is next day by DHL from a major hub like Singapore. The old Tri-Elmar does have a single code and the bayonet has a lever to select the viewfinder frame lines as you change focal length. It's possible the camera will sense the position of the lever when the code says "Tri-Elmar" but it would be the only lens to do this, so it's not clear whether they've gone to the expense of doing this. The new Tri-Elmar doesn't have the same function. I jumped in early, had my lenses coded, but it's still not clear what, IF ANY, benefit coding brings. Sean Reid is reporting good results with the 21mm Elmarit which you might think would be the most troublesome lens and I don't know if that lens was coded. I expect the coding was put in from the outset to provide backup to the microlenses and aside from benefits like flash adjustment and EXIF headers, it may be of marginal value - we're waiting for people like Sean to tell us. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sean_reid Posted October 28, 2006 Share #7 Posted October 28, 2006 Advertisement (gone after registration) Thanks, Howard. Appreciate your reply. Yes very very new to the Leica. My main concern is the poor support in my country and how much post production adjustment to the images I will need to do in adjusting the tones. Alex The RAW files converted in C1 need very little work in post. Cheers, Sean Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lxlim Posted October 28, 2006 Author Share #8 Posted October 28, 2006 You guys are fantastic. Thanks. Tom: I did wear out one 20D in about 20 months of usage. Now I have a 1DmkIIn to replace them. The number of exposures is now an important parameter for judging a secondhand body. One may not take as many pix with the M8, however, no 8 fps. Sean: Thanks. My canon files do deliver excellent quality but only after working them over. Is the M8 much quieter than the 5D? The RAW files converted in C1 need very little work in pos Mark: coding in my case is useful. It allows me to select in one fall swoop everything shot at a certain focal length. And support is important to whether I need to budget for an additional M8. F ANY, benefit coding brings. .... it may be of marginal value Alex Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterJWhite Posted October 28, 2006 Share #9 Posted October 28, 2006 Alex--May I say, your question may be an indication of how new you are to the idea of Leica? I worked for more than 20 years with Leica (both retail and wholesale) and never heard anyone ask either about the durability or consistency of the shutter Respectfully, --HC Perhaps you only sold the M bodies? The dreadful R bodies had some extremely unreliable shutters. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sean_reid Posted October 28, 2006 Share #10 Posted October 28, 2006 Is the M8 much quieter than the 5D? Alex The M8 is a little quieter and a little lower-pitched. The latter, I've found, tends to make shutter sound travel less and is less noticeable generally. Cheers, S Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ho_co Posted October 28, 2006 Share #11 Posted October 28, 2006 Digital is a 'new' medium and has spawned new needs, expectations, questions etc. I would say these were very 'digital' questions. For example, a number of people have actually worn out the shutters in dSLRs in just a couple years of usage. The number of exposures is now an important parameter for judging a secondhand body. One may not take as many pix with the M8, however, no 8 fps. Tom--You're right; my experience goes back to the pre-digital era. But then, since there are no M8's available yet, all I can say is that Leica tends to build well. I had noticed that some manufacturers specify the number of exposures to be expected from their shutters, but didn't know whether that might be just advertising and not problem solution. Thanks for the clarification! Any idea where I could get more information on the topic? Do shutters on digital cameras get fewer exposures than on film cameras? Or is it just that we make more pictures when we aren't paying for film, and reach the end of the lifespan of a not-that-well-built shutter? --HC Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterJWhite Posted October 28, 2006 Share #12 Posted October 28, 2006 Do shutters on digital cameras get fewer exposures than on film cameras? --HC Mine get many more. Since the histogram is the best means of determining exposure, it takes at least one shot just to obtain a histogram with which to calculate the best exposure; highlights as far to the right as possible. So the second exposure might be right on, or perhaps not. If not, I'll need a third. Once I've got a histogram that looks good, I'll still bracket 1/3 stop each side so as to have a few options for PP. With film, it's easier to get it right the first time. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lxlim Posted October 28, 2006 Author Share #13 Posted October 28, 2006 Or is it just that we make more pictures when we aren't paying for film, and reach the end of the lifespan of a not-that-well-built shutter?--HC Howard: Since moving to digital I am definitely more trigger happy because as you say I was not paying for film. 36 exposures is a much shorter limit stop than 100 000 exposures of a shutter's life span. But I expect M8's overall handling and slower framerate to temper my shooting style. Not a bad thing overall as I not a great fan of post processing thousands of pictures. The dreadful R bodies had some extremely unreliable shutters. Fortunately for myself, I am only looking at M bodies but not giving up my Canons DSLRs for more appropriate work. The M8 will be for big detailed enlargements done on tripods at ISO640/1250. Thanks for the info though. Alex Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lxlim Posted October 28, 2006 Author Share #14 Posted October 28, 2006 The M8 is a little quieter and a little lower-pitched. The latter, I've found, tends to make shutter sound travel less and is less noticeable generally. Cheers, S Thanks Sean. btw I like your suggestions to Leica for the M8. I was wondering if you got my email about extending your suggestions by enabling the LEDs in the viewfinder to indicate ISO(160, 320, 640, etc) or Exposure Compensation (-1.5, +2.0 for example) when the arrow buttons are activated? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sean_reid Posted October 28, 2006 Share #15 Posted October 28, 2006 Thanks Sean. btw I like your suggestions to Leica for the M8. I was wondering if you got my email about extending your suggestions by enabling the LEDs in the viewfinder to indicate ISO(160, 320, 640, etc) or Exposure Compensation (-1.5, +2.0 for example) when the arrow buttons are activated? Those would be nice but they're hardware changes. Right now, the best we can hope for are changes that can be accomplished with revised firmware. Cheers, Sean Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
marknorton Posted October 28, 2006 Share #16 Posted October 28, 2006 Thanks Sean. btw I like your suggestions to Leica for the M8. I was wondering if you got my email about extending your suggestions by enabling the LEDs in the viewfinder to indicate ISO(160, 320, 640, etc) or Exposure Compensation (-1.5, +2.0 for example) when the arrow buttons are activated? How are you going to display "+" on a seven segment display? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lxlim Posted October 30, 2006 Author Share #17 Posted October 30, 2006 How are you going to display "+" on a seven segment display? Oops, not possible then? Anyway, if its hardware related as Sean says, perhaps in the M9 but its not a critical issue for myself after some consideration. Alex Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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