guidomo Posted March 20, 2009 Share #1 Posted March 20, 2009 Advertisement (gone after registration) Looks like another S2 competitor: Mamiya announces DL33 for those who need more than 28 megapixels I'm not much into this subject so cannot comment, but I thought some people might be interested. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted March 20, 2009 Posted March 20, 2009 Hi guidomo, Take a look here Mamiya's S2 competitor?. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
stevelap Posted March 20, 2009 Share #2 Posted March 20, 2009 This is a digital back MF camera........it's a completely different beast from the integrated S2. I suppose it could be considered to compete on price though, depending upon the S2's MRSP at launch. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wattsy Posted March 20, 2009 Share #3 Posted March 20, 2009 This is a digital back MF camera........it's a completely different beast from the integrated S2. I'm not so sure the integrated aspect of the S2 is that much of a selling point. Unless it has vastly superior handling qualities to the more usual MF camera+back arrangement (and even then it's a feature that is only of interest to those likely to use the camera hand held), the pertinent comparison points will presumably be the usual ones of image quality, system size, reliability and professional backup, rental options, cost, etc. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
haribo Posted March 20, 2009 Share #4 Posted March 20, 2009 I'm not so sure the integrated aspect of the S2 is that much of a selling point. Unless it has vastly superior handling qualities to the more usual MF camera+back arrangement (and even then it's a feature that is only of interest to those likely to use the camera hand held), the pertinent comparison points will presumably be the usual ones of image quality, system size, reliability and professional backup, rental options, cost, etc. Only for myself speaking here but the integrated aspect of the S2 is a big downer for me. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rosuna Posted March 20, 2009 Share #5 Posted March 20, 2009 The only Mamiya "competitor" for the S2 would be an updated ZD camera. The ZD was a great idea but... small LCD, fast battery draining, cropped sensor (for a 645 format lenses), etc... was too much for a really operative camera. They can try again though. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlanG Posted March 20, 2009 Share #6 Posted March 20, 2009 The only Mamiya "competitor" for the S2 would be an updated ZD camera. The ZD was a great idea but... small LCD, fast battery draining, cropped sensor (for a 645 format lenses), etc... was too much for a really operative camera. They can try again though. They are bundling in a back from Leaf. What is wrong with that? BTW, the Mamiya site says it has a 36x48mm sensor, not 36x44 as quoted in this article. The 28 is 33x44mm. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rosuna Posted March 20, 2009 Share #7 Posted March 20, 2009 Advertisement (gone after registration) Cameras plus backs have a lot of shortcommings: overall size, ergonomy, integration, total cost, crop factor, electronics design, etc. That's because I think the S2 is a great design. Only the ZD was a similar good concept, but the implementation was a failure. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
adan Posted March 20, 2009 Share #8 Posted March 20, 2009 OK, so a Mamiya plasticam can pull $20,000 for 33 Mpixels (with lens, but that is also only an introductory offer) - what does that say about S2 pricing? Generally Mamiya has always been the low-rent MF camera system. OTOH, if Mamiya, with a 33 x 44 sensor, has been "feeling pressure" from the D3x's 24x36 sensor - how much MORE pressure will there be on a 30 x 45 sensor? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
carstenw Posted March 20, 2009 Share #9 Posted March 20, 2009 Not that it changes anything, but this isn't a Mamiya bundle, but a Mamiya America Corporation bundle. MAC is the distributor for Leaf backs and Mamiya cameras, and they bundled and named it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rosuna Posted March 20, 2009 Share #10 Posted March 20, 2009 OTOH, if Mamiya, with a 33 x 44 sensor, has been "feeling pressure" from the D3x's 24x36 sensor - how much MORE pressure will there be on a 30 x 45 sensor? There is not significant difference in sensor size. The S2 is a different beast to any camera in MF market. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BJNY Posted March 21, 2009 Share #11 Posted March 21, 2009 Does anyone remember what the last price was for the Mamiya ZD SLR camera body with Dalsa 22mpx 36x48 sensor ? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Black Posted March 22, 2009 Share #12 Posted March 22, 2009 The only Mamiya "competitor" for the S2 would be an updated ZD camera. The ZD was a great idea but... small LCD, fast battery draining, cropped sensor (for a 645 format lenses), etc... was too much for a really operative camera. They can try again though. I have disagree with your regarding battery life. I easily get 300+ clicks per charge. And the batteries hold their charge extremely well in between uses. I've used batteries that were charged a month or two prior and still got 300+ clicks from those too. In comparison my 645AFD II sucked batteries like Kool-Aide and the P25 was good for ~200 clicks. With regards to the LCD, yes, it's pitiful. It's good for checking the histogram and it pops fairly quickly after each shot (about a 1 second wait). A mint condition ZD costs ~$5k USD on Ebay. That's what I paid for mine last November. It's no P25, but it costs 1/2 the money and outputs a very nice image. I started writing about the ZD and November and put ~6 updates (click here) Size - 80mm F2.8 AF (non-D) - 150mm F3.5 AF - 150mm F3.5 AF - Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Black Posted March 22, 2009 Share #13 Posted March 22, 2009 And some others 200mm F2.8 APO (for 645M - manual focus, stop-down metering) 200mm F2.8 APO - 200mm F2.8 APO - Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
carstenw Posted March 22, 2009 Share #14 Posted March 22, 2009 John, are there any more entries coming? I enjoy reading your thoughts on all this tremendously. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BJNY Posted March 22, 2009 Share #15 Posted March 22, 2009 Googling reveals the ZD started its life at $12K. This with a 36x48 22mpx sensor, which commanded at least a $5K premium over a 33x44 sensor at that time. What I'm saying is Leica should [easily] be able to sell the S2 camera body at $15K with its 30x45 sensor (not too different than 33x44 size). A mint condition ZD costs ~$5k USD on Ebay. That's what I paid for mine last November. Does anyone remember what the last price was for the Mamiya ZD SLR camera body with Dalsa 22mpx 36x48 sensor ? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Black Posted March 22, 2009 Share #16 Posted March 22, 2009 Sorry, I misunderstood your question - I thought you meant how much a ZD was selling for today. The ZD still sells in Japan, whether they sell a single unit or not, who knows. At ~$12k it's grossly over-priced IMO. It's fine camera, but I'd never pay $12k for one. $5-6k for a pristine condition used one is about right IMO. Some good condition ZD's have been selling on Ebay for ~$4000-$4500. It's a great way to get into medium format without spending much money. Plus, the ZD is as easy to use as a Canon 5D. It's a great design, but it's definitely long over-due for update. Casten - Yes, I'll get back on track with the website. Things have been very busy for the last couple months, and the site is the easiest thing to blow off. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rosuna Posted March 22, 2009 Share #17 Posted March 22, 2009 I suppose that price ($5,000) is a "last-units" price... I doubt Mamiya can make any profit selling that camera at those prices... I wrote a few line on the camera time ago... Mamiya ZD A 35mm-like Medium Format Camera The last price I saw in a store was 9,000€, and I thought it was a really interesting price then... Anyway, Leica's S2 will be very interesting at any price bellow $15,000. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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