Sean Reid on Street Photography: Meaning?

[sfage]

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Whew.... "scary".

 

[sfage]

Damn... forgot to quote.

 

"Charles Dickens was something else, wasn't he?"

 

Yeah. Whew.... "scary".

 

[Guest malland]

I'd suggest just putting them up on the web at size and against the intended page color. Photoshop can make the simple web pages. Do you have a place to upload them to?

 

Sean:

 

Perhaps the best thing to do would be for me to select the 40-odd pictures from the Bangkok Set that I want to include in the book and add them to the 58 pictures that I've already selected and put everything together into a pdf file so that you can see the sequencing as well. I already have the PDF file for for the original 58 pictures, and with the new 40 pictures, I estimated that this could be done in 4 pdf files, each of a little less than 4MB. I could then upload these pdf files to a place on the web from where you could download. Do you this makes sense?

 

It will take me a few days to put this together because, as I just got back to Bangkok, I still have to print some of the new pictures so that I can make the choice of what to include.

 

—Mitch/Bangkok

[sean_reid]

Sean:

 

Perhaps the best thing to do would be for me to select the 40-odd pictures from the Bangkok Set that I want to include in the book and add them to the 58 pictures that I've already selected and put everything together into a pdf file so that you can see the sequencing as well. I already have the PDF file for for the original 58 pictures, and with the new 40 pictures, I estimated that this could be done in 4 pdf files, each of a little less than 4MB. I could then upload these pdf files to a place on the web from where you could download. Do you this makes sense?

 

It will take me a few days to put this together because, as I just got back to Bangkok, I still have to print some of the new pictures so that I can make the choice of what to include.

 

—Mitch/Bangkok

 

Hi Mitch,

 

No hurry on my end, I'm about to be buried in M8 testing. That sounds like a good idea so long as the 100% PDF view shows the files at close to intended size and preserves the file quality. I'm thinking that a lot of us might be curious to see them and give feedback.

 

Cheers,

 

Sean

[Guest malland]

Sean:

 

Thanks. I'll let you know when I finish.

 

—Mitch/Bangkok

[Guest stnami]

Mitch, a side question, how do you find the Richo GR Digital for B&W images? ie compared to a Leica or any other beast big or small

[Guest malland]

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Mitch, a side question, how do you find the Richo GR Digital for B&W images? ie compared to a Leica or any other beast big or small

 

It's a camera I like very much because it has very handy controls, an outstanding lens, noise that is very much like film grain, and encourages a "loose style" that you can perhaps see from my pictures. I find that framing with the LCD, without an external viewfinder, contributes to this looseness: being used to the M6, which I would only bring up to my eye when I wanted to shoot, I'm used to selecting just with my eyes; I then frame using the LCD without even putting on reading glasses — that is, I just "fleetingly" put a frame around what I want on the LCD.

 

It's amazing how good the files can be from such a small sensor, often having the look of Tri-X film. And, as I think I mentioned earlier I've been able to make very large prints, 100x133cm (40x60 inches). I print on an Epson 9800 using the ImagePrint RIP: I simply place the files in ImagePrint and let that program upscale the file, which seems to work very well.

 

The small size of the camera is also very important because it means that I can have it with me all the time, wearing it on my belt. This makes me shoot a lot more, which obviously is good for my photography.

 

It's been interesting using a 28mm-equivalent lens, as with the M6 I used 50mm lenses for over 90% of my photography. I should mention that the 21mm-equivalent adapter lens is also remarekable in its quality.

 

—Mitch/Bangkok

[smokysun]

hi mitch,

 

don't know if you've checked this out:

 

Ricoh GR Digital Digital Camera Sample Photos and Specifications

 

pbase has a wonderful search-engine where you can look by subject, country, or camera. amazing variety in what people have done with the little ricoh. (i hope this inspires leica to go them one better!)

 

i'm assuming most of this work done in jpeg. sean in his review said the jpegs very good - and working in raw with the write-time lag unbearable. have you been printing that large from jpeg's?

 

hi imants,

 

i've been brooding darkly on what you said about photographers looking too much at the dark side. in photojournalism, yes. for pleasure, no. all the pics i've seen on pbase, flicker, fotolog, etc. rarely if ever touch the dark side, like violence, death, and dying. mostly pretty nature shots, happy people, striking night scenes, etc.

 

and as for the artist with a camera, i'm not sure he or she has the choice you propose. chekhov said, 'happy people write sad stories, unhappy people write happy stories.' or as i mentioned elsewhere, 'art is life seen thru a temprament.'

 

an example would be joseph conrad. readers told him he was too pessimistic and dreary, so he tried writing upbeat books. alas, nobody reads those today. and when he went back to dark stuff, he succeeded once again.

 

kratochvil, majoli, delahaye - these guys dig into the darkness from a reporter's point of view.(evidently we want pictures of disaster to make us less bored with being secure.)

 

i would argue for mitch's point of view and that of the artist being different even in the black dimension. an excellent example would be w. eugene smith's essay on the chemical laden village in japan and its results. his mother in the bath with her deformed son has often been referred to as the modern pieta. i think the artist gives even hell a context and perspective from the history of art, religion, and history. a resonance. a cheery king lear wouldn't be quite the same.

 

wayne

[Guest malland]

don't know if you've checked this out:

 

Ricoh GR Digital Digital Camera Sample Photos and Specifications

 

pbase has a wonderful search-engine where you can look by subject, country, or camera. amazing variety in what people have done with the little ricoh. (i hope this inspires leica to go them one better!)

 

i'm assuming most of this work done in jpeg. sean in his review said the jpegs very good - and working in raw with the write-time lag unbearable. have you been printing that large from jpeg's?

 

Wayne:

 

I've seen a lot of GR-D shots on flickr — and of course my own shots. I've been shhoting mainly in RAW, mode but the GR-D JPGs are often very good. I've printed on taken at ISO64 at 24x36 inches (60x90cm).

 

—MItch/Bangkok

[Guest malland]

..i've been brooding darkly on what you said about photographers looking too much at the dark side. in photojournalism, yes. for pleasure, no. all the pics i've seen on pbase, flicker, fotolog, etc. rarely if ever touch the dark side, like violence, death, and dying. mostly pretty nature shots, happy people, striking night scenes, etc.

 

and as for the artist with a camera, i'm not sure he or she has the choice you propose. chekhov said, 'happy people write sad stories, unhappy people write happy stories.' or as i mentioned elsewhere, 'art is life seen thru a temprament.'

 

an example would be joseph conrad. readers told him he was too pessimistic and dreary, so he tried writing upbeat books. alas, nobody reads those today. and when he went back to dark stuff, he succeeded once again...

 

Wayne/Imants:

 

Considering art, and not reportage, I have trouble with Imants' statement about looking too much at the dark side. The same way that art need not be decorative, it doesn't need to be happy or upbeat either. In the introducition to his "Story of Art" Gombrich discusses a "pretty" drawing of Rubens' baby and compares it to Dürer's drawing of his ninety-year old mother, who has a sad, haggard look. He makes the obvious point that both can be art. In my case, there are enough photos of Bangkok as being in the "Land of Smiles." Yes, the Thais smile a lot, but in the end there is, like anywhere else, another reality. That is what I'm trying to depict.

 

—Mitch/Bangkok

Flickr: Photos from Mitch Alland

[Guest stnami]

Sounds like a worthwhile camera to have in one's arsenal, probably like the D2 a one of and then the camera/lens will create a image of different character

[smokysun]

hi imants,

 

i agree with you. the camera looks more and more interesting. also, with a fixed 28 it would force one to shoot differently. kratochvil uses a 28 on his nikons (according to what i've read) and it fits his style as he likes to get right in there, right in the face, and it makes things very immediate and interesting.

 

this, i think, is a lovely series with the camera: RiverEarth - Travels with Bernie Harberts Photo Gallery by Christian Harberts at pbase.com

 

alas, they still cost a little over $600. that brings up a lot of other options. next weekend i'll have my fuji f30 and will report back.

 

hi mitch,

 

you might be interested in looking at this: Amazon.com: Photojournalism, Fifth Edition: The Professionals' Approach: Books: Kenneth Kobré it focuses on storytelling.

 

also, it shows the difference between the storyteller as street photographer and as journalist. i think the first definitely implies a story or stories, but in the picture there's some universal, as john berger explains in his 'another way of telling' (recommended by imants). the journalist has an immediate impact but is dependent on the time in which the shot occurs. later it usually loses meaning.

 

keep us up to date on your project. it's most interesting.

 

wayne

[Guest malland]

...it shows the difference between the storyteller as street photographer and as journalist. i think the first definitely implies a story or stories, but in the picture there's some universal, as john berger explains in his 'another way of telling' (recommended by imants). the journalist has an immediate impact but is dependent on the time in which the shot occurs. later it usually loses meaning.

 

Wayne:

 

To to tell you the truth I'm not that interested in street photography as such in terms of my project because what I think I'm doing is not "reporting" or "documenting" but "depicting"; and, consequently, I'm not really trying to tell a "story", except in an existential or poetic sense, the latter imlying levels of meaning that are brought to it by the viewer.

 

Also, to address a point you made much earlier in this thread, by "poetic" I don't mean in the sense of "lyrical", as you seemed to, but rather the sense of level of meanings and some cadence in the structure or rhythm in the sequence of the book's photographs, which I hope will become clear when you see the actual structure of the project's four chapters.

 

—Mitch/Bangkok

[Guest stnami]

Mitch in the end once the book is presented to the public they will dictate whether it is poetry, depiction, stories, a series of pictures, good, bad or indifferent.The most we can hope is that our ability to visually communicate is enough for them to understand what is produced along with presenting them with a meaningfull experience

[Guest malland]

Good point, Imants.

 

—Mitch/Bangkok

[smokysun]

hi imants,

 

very true. a story meant for adults may end up appealing mostly to children and vice-versa. 'arsenic and old lace' is the example of where a playwright thought he was writing a serious drama and it turned out to be one of the most famous comedies of all-time.

 

the zeit-geist also plays a large role. what the audience gets excited about this year they may find boring in the next.

 

as you've said, all you can do is throw your bread on the waters!

 

hi mitch,

 

i don't know if you get the photoeye newsletter, but it might help your project. scroll down the page and you'll see they publish a magazine with lots of articles on publishing photo books. photo-eye | Explore Art Photography

 

there's a famous saying in theater: "there are three main drives in human beings - food, sex, and the desire to re-write another person's play!"

 

stick to your guns and let us see what you've got.

 

wayne

[raizans]

the street photography we see online is the result of thinking there is such a thing as street photography. it's a parody!

[Guest stnami]

The younger generation of image makers attach a completely different meaning to working the streets and in some circles it means taking a particular type of image for a selective audience. The older generation tends to view it in terms of traditional categories, landscape, portrait etc, terms that are somewhat dated and redundant.

[smokysun]

hi raphael,

 

you've brought up an extremely interesting point: the parody aspect. and imants' comments made me think about how the street has been referenced since the sixties:

 

"life is out in the streets"

 

"the word on the street is...

 

"the street price"

 

the world of fashion is always asking "what's happening on the street?"

 

 

i've just looked through the best book i've found on fashion photography, Amazon.com: Archaeology of Elegance: 1980-2000 Twenty Years of Fashion Photography: Books: Marion De Beaupre,Stephane Baumet of the 80's and 90's,

the best in terms of the chosen pics, not the essays, which i found way too academic.

 

what struck me was exactly what you said, all of it being a rather naive and sometimes amusing parody of 'life in the streets', even if it's in the bedroom. (an awful lot of these fashion photos, however, were taken in the street.)

 

in fashion advertising i feel life got too serious for this view on 9/11. it's like everyone is a little wiser and older now, and really scared.

 

but, you go to fotolog, etc., and you see the younger generation still playing out this parody. they seem to be less affected by the tenor of the times or it's merely youth which always acts and feels invulnerable. and as oscar wilde said so wisely 'life imitates art.' and in our world, advertising!

 

thanks for pointing this out. and, imants, maybe we need to distinguish between life caught unawares and 'acting out'.

 

wayne

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[Guest malland]

No hurry on my end, I'm about to be buried in M8 testing. That sounds like a good idea so long as the 100% PDF view shows the files at close to intended size and preserves the file quality. I'm thinking that a lot of us might be curious to see them and give feedback.

 

Sean:

 

I've now printed all the newest pictures and selected the ones for the book project: there are 114 in all, 58 shot with the M6 and 56 with the GR-D. I've prepared half of the JPGs and hope to complete the rest tomorrow. Hence, a few questions:

 

1. I'm going to put this up on a server for downloading, but thought that it might be more prudent, rather than posting the url here, to ask people who want to download the files to send me an e-mail requesting the address. What do you think?

 

2. I was thinking to put the JPGs into a PDF file, but then thought I could just zip the JPGs and upload them. I've started the file names with numbers, which will keep the JPGs of the photos and chapter titles in the correct sequence: on the Mac I would view the JPGs using Preview, which allows a slide show. Do you have a preference to get the book project as PDF file or as JPGs?

 

—Mitch/Bangkok