Guest guy_mancuso Posted October 9, 2006 Share #21 Posted October 9, 2006 Advertisement (gone after registration) Okay now let's remove the 90, 75 and 24 . So this would be for lenses 21 , 28 , 35 and 50. Remember now the 21mm would share the 35mm frameline but your using the full image. This is interesting Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/6868-m8-can-frame-lines-be-removed/?do=findComment&comment=67068'>More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted October 9, 2006 Posted October 9, 2006 Hi Guest guy_mancuso, Take a look here M8 can frame lines be removed. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
robsteve Posted October 9, 2006 Share #22 Posted October 9, 2006 The bottom of this page shows the range finder masks. It is just a matter of replacing these masks. I have read in some cases the technician can just black out the unwantted frames on your existing masks. M2/3/4 Rangefinder Restoration Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guy_mancuso Posted October 9, 2006 Share #23 Posted October 9, 2006 I think I just talked myself into a 21,28,35 and 50. LOL Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sean_reid Posted October 9, 2006 Share #24 Posted October 9, 2006 Interesting that you seemed to think otherwise until a moment ago. I was curious to know what it is about the M8 that makes it more difficult to remove unwanted framelines than is the case with other M cameras. I did think otherwise because I didn't realize that Leica was ready to do that already. It's not really something one does on a kitchen table and the masks, as Mark pointed out, cannot be the same as those on the film cameras because of the FOV crop. It's not something that ever came up in my discussions with Leica. I'd still recommend that people (esp. those that are new to RFs) keep all the frame lines in until they've worked with the camera for awhile to see which lenses work best for them. But, it's an individual choice of course. I'd also suggest people do some first hand testing before assuming that the full frame will work for a 21 mm lens. I think the framing will be tight and, of course, there's no parallax correction. People who are new to rangefinders may want to keep the parallax aspect in mind. Sean Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
marknorton Posted October 9, 2006 Share #25 Posted October 9, 2006 I don't think the frame mask needs to be replaced. My understanding is that to remove a frameline, the technician simply 'paints in' the unwanted frameline on the mask. Perhaps somebody with more knowledge could comment on what is involved. The frameline masks consist of two small pieces of metal with tiny slits cut in each. One mask moves over the other and framelines are "injected" into the viewfinder where the slits coincide in both masks to let the light through. To remove a frameline, you have to either have a mask without some of the slits cut into them or else block off the existing slits. Tape is a possibility, I guess, but the masks are really small - you can see them for the M6 in this short cut. M2/3/4 Rangefinder Restoration Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guy_mancuso Posted October 9, 2006 Share #26 Posted October 9, 2006 yes I would not do this until i was sure on my lens selection after i used them for awhile but it is a interesting option. The one i did not do was leave the 24 and take away the 35 if someone was not going to use the 35mm. The 90 is not that bad . the 50 and 75 is okay but he 24 and 35 threw me off the most. 2 great focal lengths too Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sean_reid Posted October 9, 2006 Share #27 Posted October 9, 2006 Advertisement (gone after registration) yes I would not do this until i was sure on my lens selection after i used them for awhile but it is a interesting option. The one i did not do was leave the 24 and take away the 35 if someone was not going to use the 35mm. The 90 is not that bad . the 50 and 75 is okay but he 24 and 35 threw me off the most. 2 great focal lengths too Hi Guy, It's an individual choice, of course, but I think that 24 is going to be an important focal length on the M8 because it is the widest one can work while still being able to simultaneously use the RF mechanism and parallax-corrected frame lines. Did you borrow a film rangefinder to start to get a feel for this stuff? Cheers, Sean Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wattsy Posted October 9, 2006 Share #28 Posted October 9, 2006 I did think otherwise because I didn't realize that Leica was ready to do that already. It's not really something one does on a kitchen table and the masks, as Mark pointed out, cannot be the same as those on the film cameras because of the FOV crop. That's fair enough. It sounded from your earlier tone that there was something some of us had missed in assuming that it could be easily done (by a reliable technician like DAG). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guy_mancuso Posted October 9, 2006 Share #29 Posted October 9, 2006 No Sean I did not and may run down to a local shop and rent one for a week and play. BTW i just sent a e-mail to my local leica rep with the photos I just posted to get us some info on this , Time in shop , price and if it can be done here in the N.J shop or at Solms . hopefully she will get back to me soon and i will post this. Like any gear some things need to be adjusted to ones style, certainly not for everyone. This comes from a guy that has a Olympus 24mm shift lens convert the mount to be a R mount so i have a nice shift lens of 24mm on my DMR and it works great. Check this out a 3 vertical stitch shot with the Oly 24 and the DMR Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/6868-m8-can-frame-lines-be-removed/?do=findComment&comment=67145'>More sharing options...
ho_co Posted October 9, 2006 Share #30 Posted October 9, 2006 Guy-- Since Leica offers the opportunity to blank out offending frame lines, it's clear that their presence bothers some users. But my recommendation (along with most others here) is to try the camera for a couple months before having such an alteration made. (Remember, the M5 viewfinder was considered crowded when it came out because of its metering readout bar--now it is being cited as an example of a less-crowded finder!) Reasons: A) You may find you become accustomed to the frames. You may later be tempted by one of the lenses whose frame you have eliminated, and need to have it re-installed. C) One of the advantages of the rangefinder is precisely the ability to preview framing without changing lenses. D) (of less importance) Camera would be worth less for trade-in unless you can peddle it on eBay as "Guy Mancuso's custom M8." --HC Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest malland Posted October 9, 2006 Share #31 Posted October 9, 2006 It's an individual choice, of course, but I think that 24 is going to be an important focal length on the M8 because it is the widest one can work while still being able to simultaneously use the RF mechanism and parallax-corrected frame lines. On the other hand, I quite like using the 21mm lens on my M6 because the external viewfinder and pre-focusing is easy to use with a lens with such deep DOF. —Mitch/Paris Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
adan Posted October 9, 2006 Share #32 Posted October 9, 2006 Two points: 1) That image of the M8 viewfinder from dpreview is rather inaccurate in that it shows quite a bit more outside that 24mm frames than is actually visible (IMHO). I tried using the "full view" with my 21 - bought an external 28mm finder instead. 2) The M8 has a circuit board on top of the rangefinder/viewfinder assembly (based on the cutaway images someone posted from Photokina), so it MAY be much trickier to disassemble the M8 to get to the frame mask than an M2. More costly, and not something a "mechanical" Leica technician can necessarily do right. Screw up the circuitry and you'll have customized framelines in a non-functional camera. If Leica says they can do it, they probably can. I wouldn't want to be the beta-tester for the 3rd-party servicepeople (even those with excellent reputations for the mechanical stuff). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guy_mancuso Posted October 9, 2006 Share #33 Posted October 9, 2006 Thanks Andy that may just throw a wrench into it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ho_co Posted October 9, 2006 Share #34 Posted October 9, 2006 Guy-- This is in part a restatement of what Andy said above. (He sneaked in with his comment while I was composing this.) This may be different for you, but as an eyeglass wearer I will say use the finder frame printouts only as a guide. I haven't seen an M8 as you have, but for me on other M's, the frames are much less intrusive than they seem in the comparison photos. In addition, since my eye is further back from the VF eyepiece because of glasses, the frames seem to fill the viewfinder field to a much greater degree than they appear to in the comparison pictures; therefore they seem much more 'natural,' more like looking through a window than like looking through a glass wall. Sean's suggestion of trying a film M to get the feel of it is a good one. It would do you good to walk up to the film counter and buy a roll of Kodachrome again! And maybe it would convince you that film is better than digital, and you might offer me your place in line for the M8! No? Well, it was worth asking... --HC Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sean_reid Posted October 9, 2006 Share #35 Posted October 9, 2006 That's fair enough. It sounded from your earlier tone that there was something some of us had missed in assuming that it could be easily done (by a reliable technician like DAG). No tone per se, it's just may not be an easy DIY job on the M8. If Leica USA is willing to modify cameras in this way, that's great. Again, this is not a topic that has come up in my discussions with them. Sean Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sean_reid Posted October 9, 2006 Share #36 Posted October 9, 2006 On the other hand, I quite like using the 21mm lens on my M6 because the external viewfinder and pre-focusing is easy to use with a lens with such deep DOF. —Mitch/Paris Working in sunlight with the R-D1 and a 21 at F/8 or so, I find the external finder and zone focus to be great. Working in existing light at F/2.8, however, I prefer to be able to focus and re-focus as I'm framing the subject. Working fast wide open with an RF and an accessory finder can be tough going even when one has a lot of practice with these cameras. This is based on my own work, however, YMMV. Cheers, Sean Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sean_reid Posted October 9, 2006 Share #37 Posted October 9, 2006 Two points: 1) That image of the M8 viewfinder from dpreview is rather inaccurate in that it shows quite a bit more outside that 24mm frames than is actually visible (IMHO). I tried using the "full view" with my 21 - bought an external 28mm finder instead. 2) The M8 has a circuit board on top of the rangefinder/viewfinder assembly (based on the cutaway images someone posted from Photokina), so it MAY be much trickier to disassemble the M8 to get to the frame mask than an M2. More costly, and not something a "mechanical" Leica technician can necessarily do right. Screw up the circuitry and you'll have customized framelines in a non-functional camera. If Leica says they can do it, they probably can. I wouldn't want to be the beta-tester for the 3rd-party servicepeople (even those with excellent reputations for the mechanical stuff). Hi Andy, 1) My take exactly, as mentioned above. 2) Hence the reason that I said this is not a change that can be made easily. Indeed, Leica has people trained in the M8 and if they are all set to do this, great. I can imagine that someone like Don Goldberg would be hesitant to promise work like this until he's had a chance to take apart an M8 and see what's what. The rangefinder components are similar to an M7 but the specifics of how everything goes together, can be accessed, etc. may be different, as you say. Cheers, Sean Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guy_mancuso Posted October 9, 2006 Share #38 Posted October 9, 2006 Howard i have 2 spots. LOL I don't wear eye glasses to actually shoot but do flip them on and off to see the bloody camera, what a pain in the arsh that is. I did buy the 1.25 magnifer, which helps from 28 up. Very interesting discussion here. Honestly we have to be able to see to shoot , so this is important. I am trying to avoid external finders for the most part, if I can help it , reason i was thinking the full frame with a 21 , i know some is being cut off Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guy_mancuso Posted October 9, 2006 Share #39 Posted October 9, 2006 I would not let anyone pop open my M8 to do this type of work unless it was leica and under warranty. just in case something happened. Also i may get very used to the frame lines and not bother either Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ho_co Posted October 9, 2006 Share #40 Posted October 9, 2006 Remember now the 21mm would share the 35mm frameline but you're using the full image. Guy-- Actually, I believe the 21mm lens keys the 28/90mm frameset. Remember, the only thing that changes when you change lenses is the set of frame lines displayed; the viewfinder still shows the identical field of view in all cases. I second Andy's thought of using the small external 28 finder if you decide to go with the 21mm lens, but as Sean said, the usefulness of that suggestion will depend on how you work. The 21mm is in its 3rd or 4th incarnation, so it will be easier to find used than the 24--but the 24mm may be the better choice depending on circumstances. --HC Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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