Guest guy_mancuso Posted October 6, 2006 Share #1 Posted October 6, 2006 Advertisement (gone after registration) Well i just got back from the M8 demo, Ray Harms joined me from the leica forum , real nice guy. Well i finally met my local sales rep. Linda Leslie - Butler and if leica is listening give here a raise. Seriously very helpful and knowledgeable. Okay i know your waiting. WOW ! It is very very sweet and very very much like the DMR in the firmware and the way it functions for the most part so that part is very easy for me or anyone for that matter. Now me handling it was a different story and has nothing to do with it but me. My left hand gets in the way from DSLR habits, so I need to place my hands better. The issue is doing a vertical i go right hand on top , well left goes on bottom and blocks the viewing window. I need to go the other way or more important for vertical or horizontal i need to get my left hand underneath the camera, just a adjustment for me. I also had every lens under the sun, did I mention how small they are. Funny the had the DMR there also with a whole battery of lenses , they looked like monsters compared to the M. One immediate benifit was being able to hold a lens and remove rear cap with the same hand, that was awesome. I tried every lens they had and i really liked they way they feel and focus, true leica stuff here. The frame lines i just need to remember what was what but after a half hour i had it down pretty darn good. Given my lens selection it works pretty good 24-35, 50 -75 and even the 28-90 was not as bad as i thought it would be. focusing again something i need to get used to doing. but Linda had the 1.25 magnifier with her and interestingly enough from 28-70 it was real easy to use with that and even 24 i could almost see the frame lines. 21mm and below need to take it off and for Ray with glasses on 24mm would not work for him. Now the the 21mm without a external viewfinder was not as bad as I thought either , really very workable with a little guessing but i agree with Sean maybe better with the external. Now i loved the lenses and they did not have the new 28mm but they did have my 35 1.4 , wow and the 50 1.4 is almost a must have. Frame lines for 24- 35 , 50 -75 I found very comfortable. I just need to get the hang of working like this but I do like it alot and am proceeding as planed , this is just virgin territory for me. The images in the viewfinder as expected from beta software but the camera is fast and so is the review and play back and much faster than the DMR and that is so welcome. Buffer was awesome also. Commenting on image quality is a moot point. The ISO looked very good at 640 for sure and honestly after that with beta firmware in my mind is a none issue. With production firmware this will sing but right now your looking at jpegs on the LCD that are not what your going to get, So really Honestly i would not even worry about it. it will be good no question in my mind. Okay October 16th is load up the production firmware than start testing each body and packaging and all that stuff. Around 3rd or 4th week in November is the word , maybe some sooner i would hope but they are playing it safe and I understand that completely. So final word on it , i loved it just Guy needs to get friendly with it and that will be a non issues also. I do need the grip at least after all these years holding a SLR type body , i need some meat in my right hand, but that is me. Good news for DMR owners yes we will get a firmware update and it is being worked on right now. Happy days are here. They just wanted to get Photokina out of the way. They did mention the buffer will get better. That's it for now. Now we wait. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted October 6, 2006 Posted October 6, 2006 Hi Guest guy_mancuso, Take a look here My M8 demo impressions. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
marknorton Posted October 7, 2006 Share #2 Posted October 7, 2006 Thanks Guy, it's interesting that what you picked up on - focussing, framelines, how to hold the camera - is more your introduction to the M, not the M8. The digital aspects are, with your DMR background, "business as usual". In some ways, your experiences of getting to grips with the camera will be different from those coming from a film M direction. How did you find things like the shutter noise, base plate, LCD display (compared to DMR), menus, changing ISO and EV, viewfinder display and so on? More to the point, can you make a living with this thing? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
marknorton Posted October 7, 2006 Share #3 Posted October 7, 2006 Thinking about holding the camera vertically, the "correct" way is to hold it shutter release up where it obscures your face as little as possible. I think this is also good if you believe the idea that the camera should obscure as little of your face as possible when photographing people. That said, the southpaw in me says it's easier to hold it the other way, supported by my right hand, index finger on the release which leaves my left hand to focus on the side of the camera where the focussing tabs are on the lens. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guy_mancuso Posted October 7, 2006 Share #4 Posted October 7, 2006 Yes I can, Shutter noise is way overblown very quiet with a little whirl , really after 5ft you can't hear it. LCD is just like the DMR but bigger , very bright and very easy to read. The base plate idea I actually like. The one thing I noticed and have to check again is you can go past the mark to lay the crank back down. Maybe Sean can talk about that more , I tried it once. The menu , yes the menu . Well we are right of course in the changes we want to make. It is take your eye away from the camera and fiddle. Deal breaker no but I want a quicker EV. My only real b..ch. But it is set arrow down than arrow across than set. i think I got that right, too many steps. Viewfinder display big and bright and red color, no issues there. I liked the magnifer and already ordered it. For me it seems very easy to keep on all the to me from 28-90 without eyeglasses, so that really helped bring things in. I know this is true with all the M's but the focus patch seems small, maybe that is me also. The build is true Leica , you can slam someone over the head with it and it will hurt them but no it. Metering in camera store was hard to judge but seems just fine. Several things are a major improvement over the DMR . Speed is the biggy here. the camera is ready to shoot very quickly. The buffer seemed very large and fast and they had slow cards in there , why stores don't help themselves with a fast 150 x card is beyond me. Do look for 150x cards folks , i use Transcends but Sandisk extremes are as fast also. The review after a shot is instant and the playback and review cycles much quicker than the DMR along with the zoom. Folks you will love the zoom feature just like the DMR only much faster and you can really zero in on something and check lighting,sharpness or whatever you are looking for. I was looking for noise today. LOL I can pretty much tell you at 640 on the LCD it looked damn good and that is the LCD jpeg, so expect much more there. also I do see the firmware as beta in the demo model. So anything we may have seen , ignore it . oct. 16 sounds like reviewers will get them back and be able to talk image quality. but it looks like a safe bet to me and i am as picky as hell. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guy_mancuso Posted October 7, 2006 Share #5 Posted October 7, 2006 Yes I hold the shutter up and i just need to make my left hand work better with this becuase on a DSLR i rest the bottom side in my left palm as i focus , can't do that with the M you hide the viewing finder. I think this camera will be easier for folks that are not old dogs that held a 35mm Slr for 31 years. really hard to break that habit but i will . Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
marknorton Posted October 7, 2006 Share #6 Posted October 7, 2006 Andy mentioned the same issue with the base plate latch - that the stop to prevent you turning it more than 90 degrees didn't. It felt sold when I tried it at Photokina but then I didn't want to break the thing... Good to hear you're happy with it... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
gravastar Posted October 7, 2006 Share #7 Posted October 7, 2006 Advertisement (gone after registration) Yes I hold the shutter up and i just need to make my left hand work better with this becuase on a DSLR i rest the bottom side in my left palm as i focus , can't do that with the M you hide the viewing finder. I think this camera will be easier for folks that are not old dogs that held a 35mm Slr for 31 years. really hard to break that habit but i will . If you are holding the camera vertical with the shutter release up you may find it easier to release the shutter with your second finger of the right hand rather than the first finger. I used to use my first finger until one day when I was in front of a bunch of press guys one tapped me on the back and said use your second finger, then you won't stick your elbow out and stop us from taking pictures. He was right It also strains your hand less if you want to tuck your elbow in. I'm left eyed and most of the time for vertical shots hold the camera in my right hand between my second finger and thumb. and release the shutter with my first finger. I focus with the left hand which is at the bottom of the camera well out of the way of the range/view finder windows. Because rangefinders are so light weight you have more holding options than a heavy SLR. Bob. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Ross Posted October 7, 2006 Share #8 Posted October 7, 2006 Yes I hold the shutter up and i just need to make my left hand work better with this becuase on a DSLR i rest the bottom side in my left palm as i focus , can't do that with the M you hide the viewing finder. I think this camera will be easier for folks that are not old dogs that held a 35mm Slr for 31 years. really hard to break that habit but i will . Hi Guy, Nice comentary on all the various issues and virtues. I thought about the vertical hold and the just got my M6 to see what I instictively did. I hold the viewfinder end down in mt left hand between my thumb (on top above the viewfinder) and third finger (on the bottom of the camera), which leaves my left index finger to focus with the tab (my Summicrons 50 & 35 have focus tab). The focus manuver changes with the 90/2 & 135/4 that don't have focus tabs. I've also been know to focus horizontally and flip to vertical for the shot. This vertical hold approach allows the back of the top plate to be pressd against the forehead for stability. This works for right eyed folk. I have seen left eyed folk hold the shutter end down, thumb on the shutter. Bob Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guy_mancuso Posted October 7, 2006 Share #9 Posted October 7, 2006 Yes i am left eyed and probably better off with the shutter side down. That way left hand comes from the back side of camera and keeps those elbows in. I liked that story Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guy_mancuso Posted October 7, 2006 Share #10 Posted October 7, 2006 BTW i forgot something at the demo today. When you buy a leica M8 you get 2 FREE lens coding conversions. Just send in the 2 lenses and the Serial number of the camera Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
harmsr Posted October 7, 2006 Share #11 Posted October 7, 2006 I'll throw in my comments today on the it also, based on coming from a film M more than a DSLR. The VF is basically identical to that of the M7 relative to the information and operation. It shows the typical red LED triangles, center circle, and dots which react identical to the M7. Shutter speed is only displayed numerically when the camera selects it in AE mode. The version .2? firmwared seemed to underexpose all images about 2/3 to a full-stop. I'm sure that this will be corrected. WB was a little on the cool side with the early firmware. Again, I would expect it to be corrected for the final firmware. Framelines are 24/35, 50/75, and 28/90. I wear glasses and the 24 framelines are not visible to me in the .68x finder. Brightness and flare are the same as the M7. The only lines which seemed strange to me were the 75 lines, which appeared to be too square vs. 3:2 rectangular. This also confirmed out on the LCD screen preview as capturing more horizontal than the frameline showed me. (Yes, this is even after taking into account that the framelines are sized for about 3-5M focus distance.) I don't own a 90 but for my 50 & 75, I will definetly use my 1.25 magnifier. The bottom plate works fine for access to the card and battery. The latch in on the right side of the camera vs. the typical left. The statements about the camera being slippery or difficult to grip without the thumb pressure on the wind lever, are over-stated. I had no issues at all. My right hand did NOT land on the control wheel inadvertently. Positioning seems fine and I have rather large hands. The menu was easy to navigate, but for ISO and EV comp change you have to remove it from your eye. Press set, scroll with the wheel or arrows to ISO, press set, scroll again to select value, press set again. Too many steps, I REALLY hope that Leica will address this in a firmware update. Frame rate for shooting was fast. No concern on buffer or write speed. Like Guy said, the jpeg review image popped up on the LCD almost immediately. Histogram view was good. The ability to very then rapidly zoom and review any area was great. The camera was thicker to the feel but not uncomfortable. However, I also like my M5. I am now truly convinced that image quality and noise concerns are a non issue. Setting the ISO to 640 and reviewing the LCD preview (jpeg as expected although we were shooting in 10MP Raw) showed a file with excellent workability. Noise was minimal in dark shadow areas of the store. 3D texture, range, tones, etc... were all very good - even on the very early firmware. Basically, the camera was a true M and I'm very excited to get mine. Additionally, it was great to actually meet Guy face to face considering that we have talked by phone many times. Best, Ray Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guy_mancuso Posted October 7, 2006 Share #12 Posted October 7, 2006 Nice follow up Ray coming from a true M shooter very important. Also was nice to finally met you and again thanks for your help. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sreidvt Posted October 7, 2006 Share #13 Posted October 7, 2006 Anyone with large hands who works with this camera for a few hours may start to appreciate how much better it works with the grip mounted. I think some of the pre-production cameras had quirks with the base plate latches that won't be there in the real thing. Glad you both liked it. Cheers, Sean Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
adan Posted October 7, 2006 Share #14 Posted October 7, 2006 Guy, if you looked real hard you could probably still see my fingerprints on that baby from last weekend when it was touring Denver. (I mean the dents my fingers left when Linda pried it away!) Linda said that piece was likely one of the REALLY hand-built prototypes, which explains (as does Sean) the weak stop on the bottom release. Here's Guy's new friend (DMR shot from last spring) A wonderful person, even when she was driving me crazy by sticking to the letter of the NDA: Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/6735-my-m8-demo-impressions/?do=findComment&comment=65832'>More sharing options...
Guest guy_mancuso Posted October 7, 2006 Share #15 Posted October 7, 2006 Andy i was wondering about those dents:D Linda was extremely nice and had a few funny comments about people trying to code the lenses themselves. I have her card sitting in front of me and she promised to send all info as soon as she can and one of the few sales person i believe that will. I liked the magnifer so much I ordered one today. it is the little stuff that hurts the pocket. LOL For me i walk around with a camera in my hand and either a grip or the hand strap really helps me relieve some pressure in my fingers because i have somewhat bad arthritis. i think it will be a love hate thing for some folks. i would try one before purchase if you can. Ray showed me the polarizer setup for leica and wow that was about the coolest thing i have every seen, not cheap though Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
harmsr Posted October 7, 2006 Share #16 Posted October 7, 2006 Linda has always seemed to be a nice person and anwers phone calls or messages very quickly and friendly. When I was trying to get some warranty work done through Leica USA is NJ, she coordinated everything and did great follow-up insuring that things happened immediately. Guy - She really does send out the email and information as soon as she can. Believe that one. Ray Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
larry Posted October 7, 2006 Share #17 Posted October 7, 2006 Guy and Ray, Thanks for posting your M8 impressions -- now I'm even more curious to have a look at this camera myself. There's a demo in my area next Saturday that I'll be sure to attend. Larry Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
marknorton Posted October 7, 2006 Share #18 Posted October 7, 2006 I don't think for one minute you'll be disappointed. Picking up an M8, which is so obviously an "M" and have it work as a digital camera is intriguing, to say the least. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guy_mancuso Posted October 7, 2006 Share #19 Posted October 7, 2006 I think any old M user will be quite surprised how M this really is. I had the M7 right there next to it and was loking at lenses through that also. Just trying to figure what the lever was for under my right thumb:D :D Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
grober Posted October 7, 2006 Share #20 Posted October 7, 2006 BTW i forgot something at the demo today. When you buy a leica M8 you get 2 FREE lens coding conversions. Just send in the 2 lenses and the Serial number of the camera Guy, Is this country-specific or a truly global offer from Leica? Thanks! -g Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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