Leica S2's Kodak CCD sensor

[sdai]

Advertisement (gone after registration)

When it comes to image quality, there is really no argument on CCD vs. CMOS, Mr. Villain

 

There's only ONE reason why most mass market camera makers have gone for CMOS, and that is because of its simplified architecture and much higher integration level of peripheral electronics, therefore they can be built CHEAP.

 

But, even the American empire has gladly embraced socialism so who knows what will happen and don't forget ... the origin of communism is in Germany.

[rosuna]

For the S2 a CCD based solution is the best, but I am nor sure about the future M9. Power Consumption and noise handling are very important for a reportage camera.

[mjh]

The best thing about CMOS is that, unlike CCD, chipmakers have poured billions into shrinking the components on such devices and making them run faster, cooler and smarter.

So the Economist thinks that smaller pixels are a good thing, yes? Why haven’t CCD manufacturers thought of this? Sigh …

 

One of the key differences between designing digital components and designing imaging sensors is that for digital components, smaller is generally better. For sensors, it clearly isn’t. Also, taking your time in measuring the voltage read-out from a pixel reduces noise, so again, quite different from digital component design, faster isn’t necessarily better. One could also argue that “smarter” designs integrating more transistor functions into the chip are not really advantageous in imaging sensor design, as those added circuits reduce the space available to catching light and storing electrical charges.

[rosuna]

Well, CCD manufacturers have thought of this... Kodak is developing a new line of CMOS sensors, and the same goes for Sony and others. CMOS sensors are being used even for phones and compact cameras. It is a question of time...

[Gentleman Villain]

When it comes to image quality, there is really no argument on CCD vs. CMOS, Mr. Villain

 

Cool...maybe I"m just hanging out with too many Canon/Nikon people. Because it seems like everybody always argues with me about CCD and CMOS...but ya'll around here are on the same page...Cool

 

 

But, even the American empire has gladly embraced socialism so who knows what will happen and don't forget ... the origin of communism is in Germany.

 

HAHAHAHA....true

[colorflow]

Another factor in the CMOS/CCD debate is that the CMOS processing is much closer to the sequence of steps followed in making huge-volume products like semiconductor memory, so that the tooling costs are reduced by the larger volume of product over which they are shared. CCD's, on the other hand, are made on manufacturing lines that are no longer state of the art for high volume product, and have been repurposed for just this task. There may be some savings because the facilities have been depreciated, but the operating costs are applied to fewer, more specialized applications. Kodak, with a business devoted to perhaps hundreds of parts in the catalog, can do this, but a typical semiconductor manufacturer would be reluctant.

 

scott

 

That's not entirely true. While most CCD manufacturing lines are older, Sony has the most advanced and up to date CCD line. But it is true that the new CCD lines are more expensive than ordinary semiconductor memory lines. Question is, who manufactures the CCD sensors for Kodak? I don't believe they have their own semiconductor fab...

 

Alan

[dfarkas]

Advertisement (gone after registration)

That's not entirely true. While most CCD manufacturing lines are older, Sony has the most advanced and up to date CCD line. But it is true that the new CCD lines are more expensive than ordinary semiconductor memory lines. Question is, who manufactures the CCD sensors for Kodak? I don't believe they have their own semiconductor fab...

 

Alan

 

Kodak do have their own fab where they run 8" wafers. At last year's LHSA annual meeting in Rochester the VP of Digital Image Sensor Solutions for Kodak gave a presentation on their fab, the process from start to finish and the yield problem related to larger sensors. He also showed scanning electron microscope cross-section images of the DMR and M8 sensors. Very interesting, really.

 

I believe that the fab was in Rochester, but I'm not 100% certain.

 

David

[colorflow]

Kodak do have their own fab where they run 8" wafers. At last year's LHSA annual meeting in Rochester the VP of Digital Image Sensor Solutions for Kodak gave a presentation on their fab, the process from start to finish and the yield problem related to larger sensors. He also showed scanning electron microscope cross-section images of the DMR and M8 sensors. Very interesting, really.

 

I believe that the fab was in Rochester, but I'm not 100% certain.

 

David

 

Thanks David, that makes it an old and inefficient fab. Sony's CCD line is state-of-the-art 12". I don't know if they produce anything for the commercial market? Wonder why they don't use CCD in their Alpha???

 

Alan

[Alberti]

Gentleman Villain,

Added to your comments is the capability for CCD to do WITHOUT any form of digital sharpening. The CMOS-world is indeed a plastic world. In such a world the plane of focus often starts to jump over a picture. The result is for instance shallow flesh tones.

alberti