Feeling in a Classic mood

[bill]

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Jim, I'll answer your questions as I can, as the owner of a IID and an M2.

 

The look you are seeking is of course a function of the glass rather than the body. The body gives you superior handling, and *that* viewfinder, but the lenses will give you the performance and results you seek.

 

I *think* that all M lenses are coated, but I am prepared to be corrected. The lens design, coating and performance varies through time - there is no "bad" M lens, but the later ones certainly perform better than the early ones.

 

Personally, I use three lenses with my M2 - a 35mm Summaron 3.5, a 50mm Dual Range Summicron f2.0 and a 90mm f4.0 collapsible Elmar. They are all sound performers, but not state of the art. I also have later lenses that I mostly use on my M7, but there is a pleasure to be had from using contemporary glass with the M2 body.

 

Bear in mind that you can use LTM lenses on the M body with the appropriate screw-to-bayonet adaptor. Indeed, my Summaron is an LTM. You can therefore use a 1930's lens on an M8 body if you wish.

 

The other point is that you also have access to lenses from other manufacturers, in particular Voigtlander. They do a lens that may be particularly interesting to you - a single-coated version of the VC 40mm f1.4. I have the multi-coated version and love it. The SC version is supposed to give a more "vintage" rendition, particularly with B&W film.

 

I hope this helps.

 

Keep asking!

 

Regards,

 

Bill

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[Vieri]

...

 

I *think* that all M lenses are coated, but I am prepared to be corrected. The lens design, coating and performance varies through time - there is no "bad" M lens, but the later ones certainly perform better than the early ones.

 

Personally, I use three lenses with my M2 - a 35mm Summaron 3.5, a 50mm Dual Range Summicron f2.0 and a 90mm f4.0 collapsible Elmar. They are all sound performers, but not state of the art. I also have later lenses that I mostly use on my M7, but there is a pleasure to be had from using contemporary glass with the M2 body.

 

Bear in mind that you can use LTM lenses on the M body with the appropriate screw-to-bayonet adaptor. Indeed, my Summaron is an LTM. You can therefore use a 1930's lens on an M8 body if you wish.

 

The other point is that you also have access to lenses from other manufacturers, in particular Voigtlander. They do a lens that may be particularly interesting to you - a single-coated version of the VC 40mm f1.4. I have the multi-coated version and love it. The SC version is supposed to give a more "vintage" rendition, particularly with B&W film.

 

...

 

What Bill said, and:

1- New lenses being "better" or "worse" than older lenses is very much a subjective thing; new lenses have higher contrast, and are sharper overall (as a generalization): wether this appeals to you and suits your shooting style or not, is up to you to decide. I am selling a 1.4/50 Lux ASPH, considered by most the best 50 ever built, and decided to keep instead a 1.4/50 Canon in LTM because I like it's drawing better;

 

2- Don't forget Zeiss; their lenses are between CV & Leica as far as price, but you can find some absolute winners in their line up as well.

 

Good luck with your quest!

[Don'tknowmuch]

Thanks again all. I feel supported as I cross these tricky Leica shoals into deeper and calmer waters. Poetic too, you see. I am absorbing all this, and now have to consider that one can use Canon/Zeiss/Voigtlander and any other Leica screw fit as well as Leitz. Any others? I kind of knew this, but am surprised there is any apparent standardisation as I come from Zuikoland and only OM-fit ... fit. Incidentally; what is LTM? Ah! Leica Thread Mount???

Andy, thanks for the dev detail. My HC110 is the wishy washy (thank goodness) European stuff, so I just wanted to check what your 1:32 was? I guess you're talking thick US gloop HC110 or 1:31 would have almost no developer in it – especially if it’s only in there for 3m45s or so! Do you have a HC110 code letter that I can refer to?

I've just scanned a roll of FP4 @64 dev in HC110 7m30s from the Leica I and it's a bit grainy... Since I can I’ll put the image with this. What luxury! I expect the jpg/net dumbing down won't help, but your images certainly look wonderful and different to mine.

Exposure's are fine. The still-dragging shutter doesn't help on many of the images though this one was full-frame... But the grain surprised me as I didn’t see that in some faster film (Tri X) that I used before. Mind you I normally use Perceptol for Tri X/HP5 etc, but your HC110 Tri X images look fantastic and I’m pretty keen not to use Perceptol/ID11 etc as the convenience of HC110 is so good. I'm keen to try your methods!

Andy, Bill, Vieri, thanks for your continuing advice with all this.

Jim.

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[andym911]

Jim hi

 

it was this page that got me into hc110

 

Kodak HC-110 Developer - Unofficial Resource Page

 

Yes I use the concentrate syrupy stuff meaning only 10ml of syrup to 310ml water.

 

Use it once and throw it.To get the look I think you want exposure accuracy is pretty vital.Even though trix has great latitude it is easy to miss the look if you are more than a stop off in exposure.

 

As mentioned i just basically do what is says on the bottle regarding timings.

What does influence the final print or web image is the scanning..I always scan as a color neg and then convert to black and white in either PS Elements or Lightroom.

This helps a lot in getting smoother gradations in my opinion.

 

give it a go and see what happens.

 

keep us posted

 

andy

[andym911]

Jim as another example of what the HC110 can do I like to share this shot (posted before on the forum), not on Trix but Neopan, developed in HC110.

 

I think it shows quite well the low grain , good sharpness and tonal range achievable with this developer.

This was hand held but using a more modern lens, the Summicron 50 if I remember well.

 

best regards

 

andy

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[Don'tknowmuch]

Hi Andy.

Just one quick question if you don't mind sharing your hard-won knowledge? You mention that one has to be pretty spot on with the exposure to get the tonal relationship as in your pictures... I wonder if you could tell me where you... I don't know - placed the exposure of that wonderful picture of your son (I think?) climbing the frame? I tend to meter skin tones and then up them a couple of stops; from a rough 5 to seven in Ansel Adams terms. Nornally this is good enough, but if the Tri X / HC110 combination demands a greater accuracy then I'd love to hear your thoughts on this if you didn't mind, using your picture as an example?

I don't really know how to properly ask this question, but I'm guessing you know how to answer it. I just feel I may be missing out on getting this basic stuff right; hence, maybe the grain in the FP4 because I'm over-exposing and/or overdeveloping and then having to face the consequences in Photoshop/printing.

On the other tack I'm sorting out how and what I'm going to do about options of bodies and lenses - all with not enough money!

Thanks again for help.

Jim.

[andym911]

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Jim hi,

its a bit late and me and my wife just finished a good bottle of Spanish red (yes they do exist;) ) so I hope my answer is legible.

Your question is a good one.

In the shot my son climbing, I metered using the CL and increased the exposure by 1 stop.

If you look at the scene the center area is relatively light so I guessed it would underexpose a bit if I took the camera metering.

Generally if I measure skin tones when using trix, rated at 400, I add only 1 stop to the metered value, not two.Seems to work for me.

 

On the question of gear..I share your pain.I have lots of gear but the stuff I come back to is the CL with older lenses, either screwmount or M mount.It just works for me and I love the convenience and the metering of the CL.

Trying to prove to myself earlier today that the gear does not matter I took an old cheap camera and lens that hasn't been used for years, stuck some trix in it and shot off a roll.

Developed of course in HC110 and got this...I like it a lot.

 

Hope the above is clear..if not send me a PM.

 

Andy

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[roguewave]

Andy, just found this thread. Most enlightening. Must add 2 comments. The 40 summicron made for the CL is a real jewel. I use the CL & the 40 cron in the subway & no one knows I'm taking images. I can hide the CL in my 2 hands and the cron at f2 is fast enough to shoot in the low florescent light.

 

One "older lens" I found to be one of the best overal performers is the 35 Summilux pre-asph. It's achiellies heal is the long focusing distance,but it has bokeh to die for, and a very old signature wide open @ 1.4. I use it with shooting older people and it just breaths life & light into the frame & their faces. It creates space everywhere. A bargain I believe among the outrageous prices of the "new" 50 cron & ASPH's as well as the super sharp 35 ASPH Luxes that give a surreal look.

[MPerson]

I have enjoyed this thread and your insightful comments Andy. Think I need to buy some HC-110.

 

 

The other point is that you also have access to lenses from other manufacturers, in particular Voigtlander. They do a lens that may be particularly interesting to you - a single-coated version of the VC 40mm f1.4. I have the multi-coated version and love it. The SC version is supposed to give a more "vintage" rendition, particularly with B&W film.

 

 

I have just bought the VC 40mm f1.4 single coated version for the MP as my 10yr old son has fell in love with my CL and I now cannot get him to 'lend' me the 40mm Summicron-C!

 

I have only used one roll of film with the lens - Plus-X at 400 and developed in Diafine 3+3. Results are interesting but I am more interested in how it looks with Tri-X which I am currently shooting. Because I use Diafine it is great fun using 400-1600asa on the same roll of Trix-X and I look forward to see what the lens produces.

 

I have some rough and ready scans of the Plus-X if anyone is interested:

 

Nokton & Plus-X

[andym911]

I have enjoyed this thread and your insightful comments Andy. Think I need to buy some HC-110

]

 

Glad you enjoyed the thread,,,just checked out your posted stuff and some shocking tones there....very nice, perhaps a bit contrasty on some shots for my taste but great blacks and midtones.

 

Regarding HC 110...go for it...TriX without HC 110 is like eating fish and chips without vinegar;)

 

andy

[Don'tknowmuch]

Hello.

I agree that the tones in the Nokton shots are a bit contrasty - and I should know because that's exactly my problem too! I find it hard to get the gentleness of image that you have found, Andy, in the lovely shot of your son climbing up the frame. I'm not sure if this is a scanning issue (and all I have at the moment is an Epson flatbed) or an exposure/development thing.

I have yet to try to emulate the TriX @320asa + HC110 process as you describe, Andy, but hope this will get me going. I do have one exposure/dev. image that I think I got right, which is both good and bad. Good because I got it right, but bad because it was on a roll several of which were not so good, which underlines the rather worrying exactness of exposure required with TriX that you alluded to, Andy.

Incidentally I did send you a PM, Andy, but am not sure if I got the process right.

Red wine from Spain? Some of the best. Haveyou tried white Rioja?

Jim.

Here's the image; unfortunately a bit square because this was one of the frames that my camera's un-CLA'd shutter inadvertantly cropped (you can seeit's a bit dark on the left). However, I like the tones and hope I can begin to get it right more often.

This has provoked an entirely different thought in my head. I will think on this and maybe start off a new thread.

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[Don'tknowmuch]

Hi again. Sorry to take up e-space like this, but I've looked at various sites about developing with HC110 and it looks as if I'm supposed to dev. TriX for 5.5mins at 20C. Did you mean 3 mins 45 or so? Just don't want to waste a film.

Thanks,

Jim.

[andym911]

jim

 

3 minutes 45 secs is what I use....the film I use is TRI-X 400 (400 TX professional)are you sure you are using the same?

Be sure you are looking at the times for 35mm small tank development.

 

I will check the data again on the site.

 

andy

[andym911]

jim checked again and if you look at the linked page in a previous post it states 3 45' but with a comment that they believe it is a mistake from Kodak...anyway to confirm I use this time for my last 100 films at dilution B(1:31) and it works for me.All the images I have posted were developed like this.

 

good luck.

 

By the way the image posted baove IMO has good tones and contrast..I think it is just about there.I also scan a lot on an Epson flatbed 4990.

Now this might sound stupid but when you scan I assume you save as TIFF.....try saving the scanned file as JPEG.It makes a lot of difference and you will get a smoother look.

Once opened then in Photoshop as TIFF , some adjustments made and then saved as TIFF gives a whole different look, without quality loss IMO.

Give it a go on an existing neg you have to compare.

 

andy

 

p.s did you get my mail?

[Don'tknowmuch]

That's great - the jpg save and then open it again. It goes against the grain (ho ho) to dumb down like this, but it goes to show how someone who knows stuff can help. Thanks very much. There's more to fiddle with in terms of which settings to scan with and workflow, but it does look smoother without loss of significant detail.

Thanks Andy.

[Guest maddoc2003jp]

Jim as another example of what the HC110 can do I like to share this shot (posted before on the forum), not on Trix but Neopan, developed in HC110.

 

I think it shows quite well the low grain , good sharpness and tonal range achievable with this developer.

This was hand held but using a more modern lens, the Summicron 50 if I remember well.

 

best regards

 

andy

 

Having seen this photo (and the one of your son climbing the wall) makes me want using HC-110 again. Very well balanced tones and a crispiness to die for. When I started again developing my own BW films last year (after a break of twenty years), I used Tri-X / HC-110 but was never lucky with my results...

 

Thanks for posting these photos and the photo of your CL with the Elmar 50/3.5 ! It seems like a nice small package, I am more and more thinking about the CL myself ...

 

Cheers,

 

Gabor

[andym911]

Gabor,

 

thanks for your comments, am pleased that you enjoy the thread...

 

For your reference her is a shot where the grain is more pronounced. which is what I wanted.

 

What is done different here is that the image is scanned as a B&W neg and saved as TIFF.On top of that you can see that I increased contrast quite a bit.

(this is still CL and HC110)

regards

 

Andy

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[andym911]

after the buzz of the photokina i needed to get in the woods with my CL and 35/50 old elmars and TriX...was a beautiful crisp autumn day gathering chestnuts with the kids...

 

back to basics..

 

andy

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Hallo,

Look here: Interesting Leica gear

[andym911]

and another one

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[wda]

....

Before my first 50mm I was concerned about the setting of the aperture being fiddly, but once you get used to it it is fine......

I wonder how well it performs at full aperture? Leica has a reputation for designing its lenses to perform well at that setting. It would reduce the fiddly nature of settings on those early lenses provided you could select appropriate shutter speeds.