40mm f2.0 Summicron?

[johnastovall]

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Anyone know much about it? I'm look at an M6 in an estate auction this coming week end with one on it. It looks a little ratty but suspect it nothing Sherry can't clean up. Should I go for this combination? I going to dig out my Puts book to learn more. It looks like a nice addition to my M8 lens set plus gives me an M6 along with the M3 and M4.

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[teemulaine]

Summicron-C lenses were made for Leica CL. I'd love to try that 40mm Summicron, but on any M-series body it raises 50mm framelines.

 

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Leica Minolta  CL

[graeme_hutton]

It's an absolutely cracking lens and an ideal 'standard' on the M8 who's 35mm framelines are a near identical match.

 

I've a 28 + 90 Elmarit but I'd say the 40 'cron is my ideal lens for a range of work.

 

Couple of shots attached for reference.

 

Regards

 

Graeme

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[vertekijker]

If you are thinking of using it for an M8, you may want to consider that finding an UV/IR filter that fits might be difficult.

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Frans

[NB23]

Outstanding lens, quite surprisingly!

 

Of all my M-lenses (Noctilux, summarit, lux 75, SA21, 35 Lux, 18 ZM, 90 cron, and more) it is the SHARPEST on my M8. I simply couldn't believe my eyes but it is the truth.

 

This Cron 40 is the sharpest Leica lens in my bag, and I consider I own the best M lenses. Incredible, just incredible.

[andym911]

I agree...a superb lens for small money..one of my favourites for use on all M cameras, including the m8.

39mm filters fit fine even if they don't screw all the way in, no problem.

 

andy

[JoelH]

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As noted by others here, it is a very sharp lens and I always thought that the CL lenses (both 40mm Summicron-C and and 90mm Elmar-C) had beautiful color rendition in the Leica tradition.

 

The usual precaution about using CL lenses on an M body is this: The CL lenses differed in that they employed an RF-coupling cam whose sloped surface bears directly against the RF cam in the camera body, as opposed to most M lenses that keep the sloped portion within the lens assembly, so that the external cam coupling is always parallel to the lens flange. This means that the RF coupling accuracy is compromised if the M body's cam roller is not perfectly centered. Some have surmised that this difference was a design choice motivated by cost considerations for the CL price point - but I believe it was more likely motivated by mechanical compactness. The CL lens cams were still "hand finished" for accuracy and the CL camera body had tighter tolerances on the centering accuracy of the RF coupler, to accommodate the sloping cam problem and preserve focusing accuracy (especially considering the shorter baselength of the CL rangefinder).

 

So it is possible that an M body may not have its RF coupler centered quite well enough to couple accurately to the CL lenses. I believe this is an adjustment you can have done by Leica or an experienced third party with the right equipment and experience. Of course, you can check this for yourself. Infinity focus will be optically correct because the lens flange distance is the same between M and CL, so if it seems that infinity focus brings the RF images together precisely, and a few test shots at close focus (about 1 to 2 meters) indicate correct RF readings there, then your body/lens combination is doing fine. One easy method is to shoot a large newspaper page at an angle, and use the RF to focus on a particular portion of the page. Then look at the negative with a strong magnifier and note wither the best focus is on the intended portion of text, or on some nearer or further portion. And finally, if you see a problem - check the body with other M lenses first, before you assume that the issue is due to the centering problem discussed above. It may be that there are other adjustments required besides the RF-coupler centering.

 

One other thing - from the photo you supplied, it looks like the front ring may not be present. The CL lenses had collapsible rubber hoods that work quite nicely, and push-snap lens caps that fit into the front when collapsed. The filters were not screw-in, but an annoyingly custom series size (Series 5.5) made in small quantities by Leitz, B&W and Tiffen, possibly others. A screw-in filter might well fit as mentioned by Andy, but this would be instead of the hood/filter-holder assembly that should be attached. I will check my lenses, but the bare-metal look of the front surround is not right in your photo.

[graeme_hutton]

".....A screw-in filter might well fit as mentioned by Andy, but this would be instead of the hood/filter-holder assembly that should be attached. I will check my lenses, but the bare-metal look of the front surround is not right in your photo."

 

Not so. The 40mm 'cron accepts a standard thread UV/IR AND the rubber lens hood and push on cap.

 

It all works beautifully on the M8.

 

Graeme

[andym911]

your summary is correct.

andy

[JoelH]

".....A screw-in filter might well fit as mentioned by Andy, but this would be instead of the hood/filter-holder assembly that should be attached. I will check my lenses, but the bare-metal look of the front surround is not right in your photo."

 

Not so. The 40mm 'cron accepts a standard thread UV/IR AND the rubber lens hood and push on cap.

...

Graeme

 

I will not dispute that you have this setup working. However, I am sitting here looking right at my 40mm Summicron-C, with original lens shade and cap, that I purchased myself in 1976 (after working afternoons all of my 11th grade year). There are NO female screw threads inside the shade ring assembly. Now, you could unscrew the shade assembly, screw on a filter with front threads, and screw the shade into that. However, this moves this shade farther from the front of the lens and risks slight effective f/stop reduction (at f/2) or slight vignetting (at f/16). Quoting the Leica CL manual:

 

Using Filters

To fit Series 5.5 filters, unscrew the lens hood, place the filter in position and secure it by screwing the hood in again (Note: screw thread at the front of the lens is not the same as the Leica E39 filter thread).

 

If you have this working with screw filters, I would ask if 1) you may be using a compatible similar shade from a different Leica lens, or 2) you are stacking the filter and shade as I speculated, or 3) something else. Always happy to discuss these details.

 

Looking again at the photo in the original post, it may be that there is something wrapped around the outside of the front lens ring - in any case it looks a bit strange and the original complete shade is not there.

[andym911]

joel

 

thats correct...screw filter onto lens and screw shade into filter..no probs at all...it works

andy

[JoelH]

On the M8, I agree that I wouldn't be concerned about vignetting/interference issues with the hood and a stacked filter. It has a smaller sensor than the film cameras, therefore a smaller angle of view and can tolerate (even benefit from) an extended shade.

 

On the film cameras, it is worth checking and I wouldn't be surprised that there is some effect. However, it is also common that users don't notice a little lens shade corner interference. It is a minor darkening effect at large aperture (the shade is way out of focus) and a minor vignetting issue at small apertures (DOF starts to create a corner-vignetting effect), and it is well understood that you can get away with a surprising amount of vignetting before it becomes objectionable in most photographic situations.

 

Since the threads don't match exactly, one should not force the filter/shade stack too tight.

 

The Minolta Rokkor lenses for the CLE used a standard (40.5mm I believe) thread instead of the Series 5.5 (and also used a parallel coupling cam that eliminates the other issues I mentioned). I have used the 28mm Rokkor which was another great addition to the CL/CLE lens lineup, but I never tried the 40mm Rokkor for the CLE - others say it's very good also and maybe a little better for anti-flare coating.