M2 Betriebsk

[Leitzmac]

Advertisement (gone after registration)

Hello all,

 

Wondering if anyone could tell me more about this camera. Any records for how many M2 Betriebsk exist/were made (and not destroyed)? I got hold of this M2-2029 because although I prefer other Ms (3 for shape, history and 4,6 for speed of use/practicality) I think the M2 played an interesting role in the future development of the range finder and viewfinder system and therefore a precursor like this has played it's part in that evolution. As with other early M2s mine does not have a self timer or the M3 lever rewind release (mine has the push button rewind release). It also has the external manual reset exposure counter as with all M2s - the external counter must've been part of the Leica's money saving idea from the outset? Also noticeable is the very large tripod bush, on measuring it appears to be 3/8" or 9mm.

 

Perhaps this one was sold to an employee, perhaps given to a photographer to test and they never returned it, but it's nice to think that this one wasn't dismantled like so many were.

 

Appreciate any information people might have on these M2s.

 

Many thanks in advance!

[Erik van Straten]

Can you post a picture of the camera you are speaking of?

 

Erik.

[lars_bergquist]

M3, M1 and M2 cameras sold in Europe (excluding Britain, as usual) did normally have the 3/8" tripod bushing.

 

The old man from the Age of Tripods

[bill]

Mine's a 3/8"

 

Regards,

 

Bill

[Leitzmac]

Gentlemen,

 

Thank you for your replies. I will try to add some pictures for your perusal in the coming days.

 

Thanks again for your interest,

 

LM

[Leitzmac]

Thanks again for your replies, please find pictures below:

Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here…

Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members!

[lars_bergquist]

Advertisement (gone after registration)

Damn nice early M2. The 'Betriebskamera' engraving seems genuine. I wonder if it was sold to a Leitz employee, or escaped all on its own ... Many Betriebskameras also hade the serial number (often preceded by 'Betr.K.) under the top plate. But I see little reason for doubt.

 

Betriebskameras have collector value, needless to say.

 

The old man from the Age of the M2

[bkyoung]

Showing my ignorance (but I am here also to learn):

What does being a "Betriebsk" mean?

[doubice]

Showing my ignorance (but I am here also to learn):

What does being a "Betriebsk" mean?

 

Abbreviation for 'Betriebskamera'; German for 'Company Camera' . Cameras so inscribed were used by Leitz for evaluation purposes, Leica School etc.

 

Best,

 

Jan

[Dr. No]

it is in really good shape - astounding !

 

congrats.

 

OLAF

[lars_bergquist]

There are two distinct ways to treat a collectible camera like this one.

 

• The Japanese way: Seal it in a welded-shut plastic bag and allow no human hand to touch it. Inside, lubricants will slowly change into rigid adhesive and the shutter curtains will go brittle. Result: a dead and embalmed camera shell.

 

• The Leica-lovers' way. Give it a competent CLA, store it cool and dry, hug and pat it in front of the fire during dark winter nights, and run a film through it occasionally. Do at least run the shutter and film advance 'dry' now and then. This way it will keep running and in good order for a very long time.

 

Considering that the camera must be half a century old, I would even consider new shutter curtains, if an expert would recommend it. That is expensive, but owning jewels is expensive. You might even consider returning it to Solms for the CLA—but for Chrissake, tell them not to change the curtains without asking you in advance!

 

The old man from the Age of the M2

[lars_bergquist]

Ah, your other question: How many were made? Nobody knows. These cameras were taken out of the running production (i.e. they were not prototypes) but there is no documentation, as the intention never was that these cameras would ever exit the factory gates. Most of them were scrapped after their usefulness to the company was exhausted. The survival and the near-mint condition of your camera is therefore a minor miracle. I think that the camera was either sold to a favored employee, or stolen by one (not very likely—team morals was very high in the old Leica operation in Wetzlar).

 

'Betrieb' BTW does not mean 'company' but roughly 'industrial operation', like a factory, workshop etc. One company can operate several 'Betriebe', maybe in different locations. So a better translation would be 'factory camera'.

 

The same old man from the Age of the M2

[bkyoung]

Most of them were scrapped after their usefulness to the company was exhausted.

 

Gaak! That little sentence was like fingernails on the blackboard! I'll be up nights getting that image out of my head...

[Leitzmac]

Lars:

 

Thank you again for your information, must say was somewhat amused by the two options with regards future use, I think it's fair to say I can confirm I am not Japanese! Surely that is a massive generalisation though, there must be many old cameras in use in Japan and in a way that ceremonial mummification is probably born of their utter respect for such wonderful cameras, a little misguided perhaps, but I think it would be wrong to pour scorn on those in question (like I have seen on other forums that shall remain nameless).

 

I wonder which is worse, the 'vacuum packing' by a collector or the creation and subsequent destruction by Leica? There's irony in there somewhere...

 

I say I must agree with bkyoung, the thought of all those cameras being scrapped is rather unsettling, however when I look at this M2 a smile crosses my face and I think of Steve McQueen in 'The Great Escape' - who knows how it survived the hands of the emotionally bereft Leica executioner (doubtless it will remain an enigma) but the fact is she escaped and that in itself is cause for minor celebration - Freedom!

[bkyoung]

Lars:

 

I think it's fair to say I can confirm I am not Japanese! Surely that is a massive generalisation though, there must be many old cameras in use in Japan and in a way that ceremonial mummification is probably born of their utter respect for such wonderful cameras, a little misguided perhaps, but I think it would be wrong to pour scorn on those in question (like I have seen on other forums that shall remain nameless).

 

 

You remind me of a story told me by a California photojournalist in Japan to cover an Olympics (Nagano? I fear I don't remember.) He was walking through the town making feature pictures when he saw an old man in a kimono (yes, the man was that old), carefully handwrapping the delicate shoots on the branches of a tree, one by one, with a small piece of fabric and a tiny splint to protect each from the snow. My friend, through gestures, asked permission and then made several pictures of the old gentleman at work.

 

Then the old guy gestures that he would like to photograph the odd American, and rushed into his house. Out he comes with a spotless M3, shoots a couple of frames of my amazed friend, and goes back inside...

[lars_bergquist]

I heard a story that at certain gun exhibitions in the U.S. 'commemorative' editions of some revolver models were sold—at horrendous prices of course—with a strap through the trigger guard and across the hammer, in order to preclude the gun being operated even one single time. Because just cocking the hammer once and letting it down again gently would have disqualified the gun from being 'mint' and lowered its price by two thirds!

 

This is just to point out that I don't think Japanese are crazier than other human beings ... but collectors can be!

 

The old man from the Age of the M2

[Leitzmac]

Lars:

 

I totally agree and I hope that you didn't think that I was pointing an accusatory finger at you over the Japanese reference. Certainly, collectors are, for the most part a mad bunch. Collecting seems to tap into that mildly obsessive, compulsive element of the human psyche! Perhaps I'm speaking for myself here, but when I see a Leica lens/camera I simply can't help myself, I want to get my hands on it, fondle it, in most cases use it for what it was initially designed - making pictures (after all the aesthetics of the equipment have no real bearing on function, they are simply a welcome bonus) however there's that juxtaposition of wanting to keep something that looks good, well, looking good! I'm in that slightly dangerous position of being a 'user' but one that somehow developed concurrently into a 'collector' of Leica equipment.

 

I think what you are saying is: the boat wont come to any harm in the harbour, but then boats were meant to go to sea...

[lars_bergquist]

[ ... ] I think what you are saying is: the boat wont come to any harm in the harbour, but then boats were meant to go to sea...

I would say that the boat won't come to harm at the wharf, but pull it up on a slipway and leave it there, and the planking will dry out and become useless.

 

The old man from the Age of Wooden Boats

[AntFi]

Dear Leitzmac

May I ask if the Leica shop auction scheduled on 12 Nov 2011 is selling your M2 button camera? They hv the same serial no.

Thanx:confused:

[Advertisement]

Hallo,

Look here: Interesting Leica gear

[aesop]

Dear Leitzmac

May I ask if the Leica shop auction scheduled on 12 Nov 2011 is selling your M2 button camera? They hv the same serial no.

Thanx:confused:

 

 

...that's Lot 128 on the Westlicht Photographica Auction website, for those interested in viewing the images AntFi is referring to. Enter "128" into the field to the left of the homepage (where it says "Jump to lot of current catalogue").