Using a 28mm Summicron with the M8

[chrism]

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Bearing in mind that I live in the wilds of Nova Scotia, and having my lenses upgraded to have the six dot code in place will involve very long and painful absences while they are sent a long way off for upgrading, does anyone have any thoughts on how much the lack of the encoding will make with respect to the built in software correction of vignetting? I am intending to use this lens as my new standard, having previously used a 35mm on the M7, and while I could obviously send it away (anyone know where? My nearest dealer is in Toronto!) I don't want to unless I have to do so.

 

Chris

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[marknorton]

Chris, I am sure DHL/Fedex operate in your neck of the woods, so you geography will add at most one day each end. Most of the time, your lenses will spend time sitting on a shelf waiting for their place in history... Only two places to send them which I would recommend - to Leica in NJ or (best) Leica in Solms, if you can cope with the customs paperwork.

 

Lens coding is most likely to benefit wide-angle lenses.

[jrgeoffrion]

does anyone have any thoughts on how much the lack of the encoding will make with respect to the built in software correction of vignetting?

 

The 6-bit coding will provide the lens information to the camera and, in turn, to the file. In the case of RAW files, the only true benefit is that it will provide the EXIF information (it will not correct vignetting in the file since the file is "raw" by definition). If you are a RAW shooter, your best alternative to coding is probably to add the EXIF information after the fact to all your images. It can be simply batched if you can remember what was taken with which lens. Leica dropped the ball on this and should have put a small database of lenses in the menu and offer to select the 'Currently using xxx lens'. This would dump the EXIF to the file for further processing. It's something really simple and straightforward to do. Nikon has a similar feature in the D2x which allows the shooter to add the focal length.

 

As far as correcting vignetting for JPG files, I hope that the algorithm used is fairly sophisticated. All this requires is for the processing to adjust the exposure in the corners. However, vignetting should not be removed fully in all cases. Take the example of a white sky. Because of the vignetting, the sky will have details as if a ND graduated filter was used. If the vignetting is removed fully, it is possible that it will be 'pushed' beyond the information contained in the sky, resulting in blown highlights. As such, whomever is writing this piece of code has to be fairly sophisticated to determine if and by how much the vignetting should be removed based on individual image patterns. In other words, I wouldn't see the benefit of it if I didn't have full control of it.

[robsteve]

Bearing in mind that I live in the wilds of Nova Scotia, and having my lenses upgraded to have the six dot code in place will involve very long and painful absences while they are sent a long way off for upgrading, does anyone have any thoughts on how much the lack of the encoding will make with respect to the built in software correction of vignetting? I am intending to use this lens as my new standard, having previously used a 35mm on the M7, and while I could obviously send it away (anyone know where? My nearest dealer is in Toronto!) I don't want to unless I have to do so.

 

Chris

 

Chris:

 

I too am in Nova Scotia, but in the city not the wilds I called Kindermann, Leica's Canadian service agent and asked about the lens coding. The service manager said that currently the conversions are only being done in Solms, New Jersey or the UK.

 

 

Robert

[chrism]

Thanks for the replies. I do most often use RAW, so of course it doesn't matter if the lens isn't recognised - any vignetting can be corrected as the RAW file is imported into Photoshop, and I assume Capture One LE can do the same. Stupid me for not thinking of that! The end of November seems a long way off!

 

Chris

[marknorton]

Well, I've had 9 lenses coded, fuelled by the belief that the M8 would really deliver in terms of image quality. I remain hopeful.

[ho_co]

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And one more thing, which may not be useful to you: The lens coding allows information to be passed to a compatible flash, which enables:

1) automatic zooming on flash units with motorized zoom heads; and

2) use of Leica's auto-slow-sync cutoff speed for 'dragging the shutter.'

 

Also note that the automatic reading of lens info can be switched off (to avoid feature #2 above, for example).

 

As Mark said, wide angles and high-speed lenses will benefit most from the coding. My viewpoint: You've still got a couple months to ponder the matter. You could:

1) send your 28/2 off now for zebra coding (the coding will not work against you, and the lens will be back before the camera arrives); or

2) decide after you see its results on the M8, with the disadvantage that if you then want to have the work done, you'll lack the lens for a couple weeks.

 

--HC

[Peter Branch]

Well, I've had 9 lenses coded, fuelled by the belief that the M8 would really deliver in terms of image quality. I remain hopeful.

Mark, can you share with us the codes on each of your lenses, reading clockwise viewed from the rear? This would be quite helpful to a number of us as you have the largest collection of coded lenses yet known.

[marknorton]

If you look further down the digital forum, you should see a post "Lens Codings" which has scans (taken by just putting the lens on a flat-bed) of the first 8 lenses. I have still to add the 24mm which has only just come back from Solms.

 

You can see pictures of the sensor on the camera, so it will be quite easy to get a paper label, cut it to shape and mark the code on to the label with a black felt-tip pen to try the code out. Not a permanent solution of course, but enough for you to evaluate whether it's worth sending the lens in.

 

It's not clear whether the camera confirms anywhere the actual lens recognised (to assist in this process), it may just be the focal length goes into the header. Key to know though is that different lenses with the same focal length have different codes. The processing will likely be lens formulation specific, not just focal length specific.

 

I am sure the original "red book" - if we can call it that, the product requirements definition for the M8 - did not include the lens coding as a core feature. At some point in the M8 development process, Leica will have realised that image quality as created from the raw sensor data in the camera or later in the RAW processor could only be taken so far without a knowledge in the firmware of the specific behaviour of the lens. I expect they tried it with one or two lenses and found it was worthwhile. Otherwise, the effort of engineering the sensor, the additional manufacturing steps for the bayonet rings plus the whole lens upgrade process could not be cost justified - I doubt Leica make much money out of lens coding. I wouldn't do it for €95 including tax and shipping.

 

What it would be interesting to know is whether the algorithms they use for processing are hand-tweaked for each lens, or whether the whole process is systematic - just a set of parameters on the exit pupil size and location to plug into a standard algorithm - and that's it.

 

Can't help feeling though that the firmware developers might still feel they are fighting with one hand tied behind their backs and that a full implementation would ideally have knowledge of focussing distance and working aperture as well.

[ho_co]

Mark, can you share with us the codes on each of your lenses, reading clockwise viewed from the rear?

Peter--here are Mark's pics. (While I was looking this up, he got in with his answer.)

 

One is at http://www.leica-camera-user.com/digital-m-m8-release/5624-tri-elmars-bayonet-flanges.html#post55037 and the others in the thread http://www.leica-camera-user.com/digital-forum/2324-lens-codings.html.

 

--HC

[marknorton]

Thanks, Howard!

[adan]

Mark: Totally OT to this post - have you seen the top views of the new multi-finder? It has two index marks on the focal length setting wheel, one for full-frame/film, one for M8 cropping...so you WON'T have to do the crop calculation in your head.

 

As to the original question of a 28 'cron on the M8 - I just had 30 minutes to try all my lenses on a beta-M8 today, and the offset microlenses really take care of a lot of vignetting all by themselves (based on viewing shots on the LCD - not allowed to take any home). Even my C/V 15mm looked at least as good as a regular 21 on film.

 

I wouldn't sweat getting the 28 coded - at least until you've worked with it on the M8 for several months and had a chance to see/compare with some shots from folks like Mark who DID get the coding added.

[marknorton]

Or, as I say, get the labels, scissors and felt-pen out to temporarily code the lens for yourself - the 28mm Summicron is among the lenses shown in the posts Howard has linked to.

 

Come on Andy, as the person who along with Sean is the most able here to give an objective assement of the camera, how did you find it -- mechanical noise, user interface, speed of operation, ease of use, all the other things we're all thinking about. Spill the beans!

 

Yes, I did see that there are two marks on the selection dial!

[Peter Branch]

Thanks, Howard!

I think we have it cracked: -

 

Lens, Focal Length, W=1: B=0, Anti-Clockwise from rear

 

Elmarit - M Asph, 21, 39

Elmarit - M Asph, 24, 38

Summicron - M Asph, 28, 37

Elmarit - M Asph, 28, ?

Elmarit - M, 28, ?

Summilux - M Asph, 35, 34

Summicron - M Asph, 35, 33

Noctilux - M, 50, 32

Summilux - M Asph, 50, 31

Summicron - M, 50, ?

Elmarit - M, 50, ?

Summilux - M, 75, ?

Apo-Summicron - M Asph, 75, ?

Apo-Summicron - M Asph, 90, 26

Elmarit - M, 90, 25

 

Tri-Elmar - M, 28 - 35 - 50, 21

[marknorton]

Interesting - 75mm Summicron is also posted, and that comes out at 27 - which is what you'd expect from the sequence. Peter, are the other lenses you have listed from codings you have seen elsewhere? My Tri-Elmar is first generation, would be interesting to know if the current lens is different.

[Peter Branch]

Mark,

Where I have attributed a binary number I either own the bit-code converted lens or I have used the photographs you have posted. There is absolutely no guess work.

 

As someone else remarked we are dealing with a German company so it is going to be a logical sequence! It appears to be simply a number code for each of the current lenses. Interesting to speculate how future proof this is.

[ho_co]

As someone else remarked we are dealing with a German company so it is going to be a logical sequence! It appears to be simply a number code for each of the current lenses. Interesting to speculate how future proof this is.

You guys are doing the job right! The whole thing takes on a logic thanks to your sleuthing!

 

Now, has anyone had earlier lenses zebra-coded? Pre-aspheric 50/1.4, any of the older 35's or 28's, etc?

 

If there is a different code for each lens thru the whole range, aren't we out of codes just looking at the past lenses?

 

Very good question, Peter!

 

--HC

[marknorton]

Howard, one of my lenses is the pre-ASPH 35mm Summicron, early 90's, and that has a code of 57. Originally, we estimated that 30 of the 63 available slots were taken up with current and recent lenses. That leaves a good number of slots for future lenses. Historically, Leica have rarely produced more than one lens a year, if that.

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[ho_co]

That's right, I had forgotten that you had already done the calculation.

 

Considering how long Leica has been around and how many lenses they've made, it's surprising to me that they've only used half the 'slots.'

 

But then, they're not zebra-coding all of the past M lenses, and I guess in another fifty years they could announce an extended coding scheme, possibly not even requiring a bayonet ring upgrade, just tacking another stripe onto future lenses and adding another diode into the M10.

 

I'll try not to worry.

 

--HC