Digilux 3 - 25mm f1.4, 14-150mm question

[cnguyen]

Advertisement (gone after registration)

Panasonic is making these lenses with leica name on them but I don't see them advertised in Leica web site. So my question to you is are these lenses good enough for Leica to produce/badge like the 14-50mm f2.8 or they are just one time deal agreement between Leica and Panasonic. There are demand for these lenses out there a nd I wonder if Leica will ever make them.

[Advertisement]

The Leica Q3 is available for pre-order at B&H Photo Video and Adorama

[Iron Flatline]

My understanding is that they are real Leica lenses. However, it is odd that they're not on the site...

[ASpes]

Panasonic is making these lenses with leica name on them but I don't see them advertised in Leica web site. So my question to you is are these lenses good enough for Leica to produce/badge like the 14-50mm f2.8 or they are just one time deal agreement between Leica and Panasonic. There are demand for these lenses out there a nd I wonder if Leica will ever make them.

 

You will never see them on the Leica site as they are branded as Panasonic lenses.

 

In some recent thread speculating about the commitment of the two brands to 4/3, there have been rumours that Leica was unsatisfied of the agreement with P/ that prevented them to sell the lenses under their own brand name, but it's just ... rumours.

There could be some truth in this anyway, after all I've never seen the Leica branded 14-50/2.8 sold on its own. AFAIK if you want it you must buy a D/3, though it's widely available under the Panasonic name.

 

Just my 2 (euro)cent.

[cnguyen]

I've seen pictures taken with the Leica 25mm f1.4 . It has the Leica signature that I'm familiar with. I was hoping someone can tell us the real story behind it.

[ho_co]

cnguyen--

Citation below was posted on the old forum and is no longer available online. I can't vouch for its accuracy, but it seems plausible.

Posted on Thursday, August 25, 2005 - 03:26 am:

Here is the whole story (at least as told by Panasonic):

 

"Leica is a registered trademark of Leica Microsystems IR GmbH.

Elmarit is registered trademarks of Leica Camera AG.

The LEICA DC VARIO-ELMARIT lenses are manufactured using measurement instruments and quality assurance systems that have been certified by Leica Camera AG based on the company's quality standards."

 

It would appear that the setting of tolerances during manufacture and checking of quality afterwards are done under the (distant?) supervision of Leica.

 

Does the original design come from Leica? Perhaps not! see this also on the Panasonic Japanese site:

 

""Today, Panasonic and Leica Camera AG have built a solid relationship as partners. In the beginning, though, there were some difficulties to iron out."

The lens on the DMC-LC20, which was marketed in April 2002, marked the first-generation lens to come from this collaboration. Ishiguro reflects on its rocky start, "We didn't get approval for the first lens that we submitted. In fact, right from the very start we had a sense that the collaboration itself was in danger. The problem wasn't in the lens itself, it was the fact that our appreciation of 'photorealism' had not yet reached the level that Leica Camera AG wanted."

 

"Panasonic had been accumulating lens technology for about 20 years at that point. It had a proud history of developing many advanced technologies and products, such as the aspherical lens, that far exceeded the abilities of many other manufacturers in the industry. However, when it came to know-how about photorealism, that is, the art of forming highly nuanced images with a still camera, Panasonic was in an early learning stage.

 

"Ishiguro explained, "For the DMC-LC20, Leica Camera AG insisted that we work more on resolution and distortion*. The level that they were aiming at called for much more than just making a few corrections. Responding to this was a major undertaking, partly because we were working against a deadline. Somehow, after revising the specifications and getting the factory to help us in our response, we were able to attain the level we needed.""

 

In a nutshell, Panasonic's "Leica lenses" are manufactured in Japan by Panasonic (or a sub-contractor?) to designs and quality standards approved by Leica. In the past such collaborations were not so frankly described, but nowadays modern consumer and trading standards legislation requires otherwise.

 

WN (wneilson)

Member

Username: wneilson

Post Number: 44

Registered: 01-2005

 

I don't recall seeing anything more specific than that, though I believe I recall having seen someplace that Leica did not intend to sell the FourThirds lenses through their own channels, with the exception of the lens sold as part of a camera sale.

 

Whatever input Leica may or may not have had in their design, the lenses sold by Panasonic under the Leica name are made by Panasonic (or by a subcontractor of theirs) to Leica-approved specifications.

 

Considering that Leica's German production facilities are so limited and that their products are for the most part bench-built rather than assembly-line produced, I don't see any way that Panasonic production could be transferred to Germany. That is why Leica sought out partnership with Panasonic.

 

I hope this helps, though it's only indirectly related to your question.

[Thomas Edwards]

Whatever input Leica may or may not have had in their design, the lenses sold by Panasonic under the Leica name are made by Panasonic (or by a subcontractor of theirs) to Leica-approved specifications.

 

Considering that Leica's German production facilities are so limited and that their products are for the most part bench-built rather than assembly-line produced, I don't see any way that Panasonic production could be transferred to Germany. That is why Leica sought out partnership with Panasonic.

 

I hope this helps, though it's only indirectly related to your question.

 

...thanks for posting this...i suppose this would also apply to the vario-summicron used on the digilux2...

 

...anyone know if zeiss uses the same arrangement with sony?

[dist]

Advertisement (gone after registration)

I don't know the mechanics of Leica-Panasonic's partnership but I recently took delivery of the elusive 25/1.4. For some example pictures, look here: DiSt : photos : 2008-06-06 ZH/SH- powered by SmugMug

and here:

DiSt : photos : 2008-06-07 home- powered by SmugMug

[MJLogan]

I own them both (25mm and 14-150mm). The 25 is a marvelous lens, and is the one that's most often mounted on my Digilux 3. Unfortunately, my 14-150 (which is also a lovely lens, if a bit slow) broke a month after I bought it. I'm carrying it around Europe as dead weight til I get home to Los Angeles, as Panasonic will only honor the warranty in the US. Since I left the 14-50 kit lens at home, I bought an Olympus Zuiko 140-600 to have tele capability on my trip without duplicating a focal length I already own. The short end of the Oly is not as good as the long end of the PanaLeica, in my opinion, even if you spot the Oly a few points for the lack of OIS.

 

I, too, have read that the agreement between Leica and Panasonic prevents Leica from marketing the lenses as stand-alone products. Pity--Leica's warranty would have been better, and I'd have saved €400 (actually, the lens would probably have cost an extra €200-300 to begin with, so never mind...).

[ho_co]

...i suppose this would also apply to the vario-summicron used on the digilux2...

 

...anyone know if zeiss uses the same arrangement with sony?

 

Thomas--We're all in the dark here, but I have no doubt that Sony and Zeiss (and is it Casio? and Schneider) have the same kind of arrangement.

 

An article which appears no longer to be available online, from digitalkamera.de for 2006-05-11, referred to the Pearl River Delta of China as a major center for lens production for all manufacturers. The article pointed out that the lens on several different models and brands had exactly the same specification (in this case, 7 - 21 mm f/2,0 - 2,5) and speculated that it might be the same lens in all cases. (See table below.)

 

In the end, it comes down to product selection. A Chinese company may turn out hundreds of thousands of a particular design, and Panasonic might select only ten thousand that come up to a particular performance standard as approved by Leica.

 

One thing that's clear is that the physical styling of the visible parts of the lenses follow the appearance of the licensing company: Sony's Zeiss lenses look like Zeiss, Panasonic's Leica lenses look like Leica, etc.

Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here…

Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members!

[cnguyen]

Leica never posted anything in regard to the 25mm f1.4 and 14-150mm but Zeiss does in their web site for Sony and their products. it's sort of strange to me.

Charles Nguyen