sean_reid Posted September 20, 2006 Share #81 Posted September 20, 2006 Advertisement (gone after registration) No, I meant only as far as using the additional hot buttons is concerned. With my D2 setup as it is: . Got it. Cheers, Sean Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted September 20, 2006 Posted September 20, 2006 Hi sean_reid, Take a look here Sean Reid's positive/ constructive review. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
manolo Posted September 20, 2006 Share #82 Posted September 20, 2006 one more vote for exposure compensation by feel or in the view finder, in the DMR-R9 it is feature that I apreciate the most Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
albertwang Posted September 20, 2006 Share #83 Posted September 20, 2006 I agree. Exposure compensation and ISO are going to be the two things I change the most on any M8... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
manolo Posted September 20, 2006 Share #84 Posted September 20, 2006 A rangefinder is a wonderful type of camera and if you get a chance to try one. Cheers, Sean Sean, this is my problem: I even have lenses for M ready but I don't know if I would be making a mistake if I divide my time and effort into R and M or if the complement of the range-finder experience would enrich the final product. The R would definitely still be my main system. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
albertwang Posted September 20, 2006 Share #85 Posted September 20, 2006 Perhaps trying out a Bessa R2A or R3A may introduce you to the RF system at a reasonable cost? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guy_mancuso Posted September 20, 2006 Share #86 Posted September 20, 2006 I think alot of that depends on what you shoot and the intended purpose for the M is. For me the R is the workwhorse and the M8 is a supplement to it. Certain things just physically can't be done with the M8 but the R i can shoot 15mm to 1200mm including macro work and shift lens and stuff of that nature. The M8 certainly has it's place . for journalist it maybe there main workhorse. Now if I hung up my camera straps and retired . i would be all over a M8 like a cheap suit. it is small has tremendous lenses and i could shoot with a small , light weight camera and still get my DMR image quality from it. That is pretty darn special right there. But as a commercial photographer that needs to work and eat than I still need to make a business case for it even though i am dying to have one. Sort of like brainwashing myself on that point. LOL Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
manolo Posted September 20, 2006 Share #87 Posted September 20, 2006 Advertisement (gone after registration) I am too digital to try film at this point. Brain-washing myself also but the M8 sure looks tasteful. If I can I'll definitely give it a try and see where it takes me. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sean_reid Posted September 20, 2006 Share #88 Posted September 20, 2006 I think alot of that depends on what you shoot and the intended purpose for the M is. For me the R is the workwhorse and the M8 is a supplement to it. Certain things just physically can't be done with the M8 but the R i can shoot 15mm to 1200mm including macro work and shift lens and stuff of that nature. The M8 certainly has it's place . for journalist it maybe there main workhorse. Now if I hung up my camera straps and retired . i would be all over a M8 like a cheap suit. it is small has tremendous lenses and i could shoot with a small , light weight camera and still get my DMR image quality from it. That is pretty darn special right there. But as a commercial photographer that needs to work and eat than I still need to make a business case for it even though i am dying to have one. Sort of like brainwashing myself on that point. LOL Hi Guy, I agree and am in the same position. I'll be able to use the M8 for a lot of work but there are still tasks for which I need an SLR, particularly commercial architecture work where I need very wide (sometimes as wide as 12 mm) and shift lenses on a FF camera. The M8 will be my primary camera for most work but not all. I strongly prefer to work with rangefinders but there are some tasks that SLRs and view cameras are better suited to. Albert's suggestion about the Bessa is a good one for photographer's who are willing to work with film. What body, Geronimo, did you have for the M lenses you still have? Did you work with a rangefinder in the past? Cheers, Sean Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
manolo Posted September 20, 2006 Share #89 Posted September 20, 2006 I have had the nuctilux, the 75/2 and the 28/2 just waiting for the M8 for about 6 months. I have never used a range-finder but like Guy said: the R quality in a smaller package just brings a bright future to the M8. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jrc Posted September 20, 2006 Share #90 Posted September 20, 2006 If I understand the way the M8 works, with the ex-comp and ISO on a top menu, I think you'll be able to change at least the ISO as quickly and conveniently as you can on an R-D1. I personally find the R-D1 ISO dial a little slow to change, especially if your hands are cold or the camera is damp, and just about invisible in low light. The exposure compensation on the M8 will be slower, but we're talking what, a half-second? And you will have to take your eye away from the viewfinder. On the other hand, if you're in a situation where you may want to change exposure a lot, and in ways not recommended by the meter, it might be quicker to go to manual. I like the programmable "Protect" button concept in Sean's revised review. One problem with the big LCD screen on the back is what when you're shooting in low light, and trying to be a tad discreet, the big screen lights up and ***there you are.*** It also doesn't help a lot with night vision. Especially when you're trying to use your night vision to hide from the concert security thugs who saw the LCD light up and are coming to crush your skull. 8-) I think Leica got a little hung up with design cuteness with that little round screen on top, which I think was intended to reflect design on earlier Ms. Since the wiring and everything is already in place, they could have gone with a larger rectangular screen like that on my D2x, which gives you all kinds of valuable information at a glance. That screen is also backlit -- it's connected to a ring around the shutter release. The ring is the off-on switch, but by pressing it further past "on," which is a very natural thing to do, since your index finger falls right on it, the screen lights up. Quick and efficient, and can easily be done while wearing gloves. JC Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sean_reid Posted September 20, 2006 Share #91 Posted September 20, 2006 I have had the nuctilux, the 75/2 and the 28/2 just waiting for the M8 for about 6 months. I have never used a range-finder but like Guy said: the R quality in a smaller package just brings a bright future to the M8. Oh, so you bought them in advance then. Got it. Cheers, Sean Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sean_reid Posted September 20, 2006 Share #92 Posted September 20, 2006 1) If I understand the way the M8 works, with the ex-comp and ISO on a top menu, I think you'll be able to change at least the ISO as quickly and conveniently as you can on an R-D1. I personally find the R-D1 ISO dial a little slow to change, especially if your hands are cold or the camera is damp, and just about invisible in low light. The exposure compensation on the M8 will be slower, but we're talking what, a half-second? And you will have to take your eye away from the viewfinder. On the other hand, if you're in a situation where you may want to change exposure a lot, and in ways not recommended by the meter, it might be quicker to go to manual. 2) I like the programmable "Protect" button concept in Sean's revised review. 3) One problem with the big LCD screen on the back is what when you're shooting in low light, and trying to be a tad discreet, the big screen lights up and ***there you are.*** It also doesn't help a lot with night vision. Especially when you're trying to use your night vision to hide from the concert security thugs who saw the LCD light up and are coming to crush your skull. 8-) 4) I think Leica got a little hung up with design cuteness with that little round screen on top, which I think was intended to reflect design on earlier Ms. Since the wiring and everything is already in place, they could have gone with a larger rectangular screen like that on my D2x, which gives you all kinds of valuable information at a glance. That screen is also backlit -- it's connected to a ring around the shutter release. The ring is the off-on switch, but by pressing it further past "on," which is a very natural thing to do, since your index finger falls right on it, the screen lights up. Quick and efficient, and can easily be done while wearing gloves. JC 1) Yes, they're on a top-level menu. Having used both cameras side by side, the M8 is not as fast as the R-D1 to change ISO or EV. It's not even close. With practice, both of those settings can be made by feel on the Epson so I find that I can make them in pitch darkness if needed. The mechanical detents make that possible. It takes a few seconds to make either of those settings on the M8 as it stands now (that's my guess from memory, I haven't timed it but probably should). How important are a few seconds? It all depends on what's happening in front of the lens during those seconds. It may not be important at all for some photographers. 2) The firmware ideas I proposed to Leica should cut the time needed to make these settings in half, by my estimate. 3) Agreed about the non-discreteness of an LCD screen. 4) That system you just described on the Nikon is one of the most ergonomic I've ever used. In fact, as I argued in the review, I think that the D200 (specifically) is one the most ergonomically designed digital cameras ever made. Leica's desire to use a circle for this top LCD makes design sense, I just wish it had been made larger so as to include more information. Cheers, Sean Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guy_mancuso Posted September 20, 2006 Share #93 Posted September 20, 2006 John I agree , really the round circle is cute but they have a lot of space up there and it could have been bigger to accomadate more like the second LCD in the DSLR with more info. Now on the LCD screen you can turn the review offf but certainly it will go on when tring to chande the ISO and EV. It really is not a deal breaker but as Sean suggest along with many of us and our idea's the simple fact is a firmware change could really solve the whole issue. i also hope that leica is following what we are saying. this kind off great input from all of us is so valuable for them. Going beck to the round LCD , i see they wanted to keep it clean looking but just a little bit bigger circle could carry a lot of data Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guy_mancuso Posted September 20, 2006 Share #94 Posted September 20, 2006 Sean seems we posted exactly the same time but yes that little circle LCD i agree could have been the answer if just a little bigger to carry more info. Like EV -1 for example that is small text. Hell cut out the battery symbol stick that in the menu and put the EV and ISO in the top circle and call it a day. Hmmmm Btw i had the D200 for a couple months and i agree there layout is one of the best i have seen for all the data that is flying around Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
manolo Posted September 20, 2006 Share #95 Posted September 20, 2006 The reflex system is so vast and just covers everything, I wish that the rangefinder-digital would try to cover more ground. It could be mistaken by a "Harley-Davidson" type of product or even a "Bauhaus" type instead of just trying to be the best tool posible. (over simplifying to try to get a point across) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guy_mancuso Posted September 20, 2006 Share #96 Posted September 20, 2006 The idea behind putting a small camera and 4 or 5 lenses in a small Domke bag instead of 2 ft x 3ft roller bag to get to a job is really appealing. Gero need to go borrow Chucks M7 for a couple days and play around with those lenses. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sean_reid Posted September 20, 2006 Share #97 Posted September 20, 2006 John I agree , really the round circle is cute but they have a lot of space up there and it could have been bigger to accomadate more like the second LCD in the DSLR with more info. Now on the LCD screen you can turn the review offf but certainly it will go on when tring to chande the ISO and EV. It really is not a deal breaker but as Sean suggest along with many of us and our idea's the simple fact is a firmware change could really solve the whole issue. i also hope that leica is following what we are saying. this kind off great input from all of us is so valuable for them. Going beck to the round LCD , i see they wanted to keep it clean looking but just a little bit bigger circle could carry a lot of data They're not just following what we're saying. I've already had discussions with them about the proposed firmware changes. Those changes wouldn't solve everything but they could speed things up and simplify key processes. Cheers, Sean Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guy_mancuso Posted September 20, 2006 Share #98 Posted September 20, 2006 That's great and they should follow the discussions on it, it really takes the engineers in the field with the end user. Oh and BTW you guys can send one anytime to me. I promise to give it a real ride against my DMR. :D Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
manolo Posted September 20, 2006 Share #99 Posted September 20, 2006 The idea behind putting a small camera and 4 or 5 lenses in a small Domke bag instead of 2 ft x 3ft roller bag to get to a job is really appealing. Gero need to go borrow Chucks M7 for a couple days and play around with those lenses. Need to have anothe San "M"iguel meeting Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
robsteve Posted September 20, 2006 Share #100 Posted September 20, 2006 That's great and they should follow the discussions on it, it really takes the engineers in the field with the end user. Oh and BTW you guys can send one anytime to me. I promise to give it a real ride against my DMR. :D I think Leica at least owes you a M8 loaner after all the good work you did in promoting the DMR. You should seriously talk to your dealer rep about this. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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