herbet Posted May 30, 2008 Share #1 Posted May 30, 2008 Advertisement (gone after registration) Hi guys, being used to be really precise with framing my pictures and having shot mostly with SLRs I'm finding the framing on my M7 a little inconsistent, i.e I get more in the final picture than what I had within the frames. what is the expected accuracy of these rangefinders. I'm wondering if my M7 needs to be adjusted. cheers. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted May 30, 2008 Posted May 30, 2008 Hi herbet, Take a look here How much precision can I expect from the M7 frames. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
H. James Wolf Posted May 30, 2008 Share #2 Posted May 30, 2008 I've used Ms from the M3 on and now use M7s as well as M6ttls. The framing has always been approximate and is even more of an issue if you wear glasses as I do. Fortunately, getting more than you expected in the frame isn't as much of a problem as expecting something to be in the frame and finding it wasn't only after you process the film. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bill Posted May 30, 2008 Share #3 Posted May 30, 2008 Generally, the frames on the M7 should cover a little more than you get on film. I vaguely remember (although I don't have it to hand) that the framelines are so designed to allow for the slight trimming that occurs when you mount a slide. What I would say is that the trimming should be consistent and even, and therefore easy to compensate for with a little experience. As a matter of interest, which magnification viewfinder are you using? Regards, Bill Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
herbet Posted May 30, 2008 Author Share #4 Posted May 30, 2008 it's a standard .72 viewfinder Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
budrichard Posted May 30, 2008 Share #5 Posted May 30, 2008 M3, M6, M7 and Nikon user. I have never found any problems with accurate framing on any M camera I have. Suggest that you find a rectangular object with the 35mm proportions and take some pictures writing down for each shot exactly how it was framed and then reviewing your pictures. BTW, more is good, less in bad. For truly accurate framing you will need an SLR with a grid type of finder screen.-Dick Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rob_x2004 Posted May 30, 2008 Share #6 Posted May 30, 2008 No, they are precise. They will be in exactly the same place each time. What you have to get your head about and learn is the rangefinder to lens parallax between the coverage at the point of focus and the coverage at infinity, or your background. Notice the viewfinder frames swing and depress as you focus? That is to keep the frameline as "accurate" as possible the distance of the point of focus. But the lens doesnt swing. When focused you are no longer seeing the location of the corners of the background or infinity, and given you are often framing your subject with respect to the background, trees, horizon, the telegraph pole growing out of a head, that is something you have to learn. Leica have to make decisions o nhe location and how much move a frameline as a lens is focused. They have to balance a number of needs, and different closest focusing points of different but same focal length lenses...eg, 75Lux, 75Cron, 75Summarit. On blance they do a very good job. It is something that is very easy to learn. But then a lot of people blame a hammer for bending nails. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
brianv Posted May 30, 2008 Share #7 Posted May 30, 2008 Advertisement (gone after registration) The size of the framelines stays constant with distance, the magnification of the lens changes slightly as you focus closer. Very few rangefinder type cameras adjust the size and position of the frame to correct for parallax and coverage. The Polaroid 180 with the Zeiss finder and Konica S2 are two cameras that incorporate this feature. It is a marginal difference, at best. All I have to do for 100% framing on my M3 is put a Nikkor 10.5cm F2.5 on it and use the interior of the 90mm framelines. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bill Posted May 31, 2008 Share #8 Posted May 31, 2008 The size of the framelines stays constant with distance, the magnification of the lens changes slightly as you focus closer. Very few rangefinder type cameras adjust the size and position of the frame to correct for parallax and coverage. The Polaroid 180 with the Zeiss finder and Konica S2 are two cameras that incorporate this feature. It is a marginal difference, at best. All I have to do for 100% framing on my M3 is put a Nikkor 10.5cm F2.5 on it and use the interior of the 90mm framelines. The M7 framelines have parallax correction. Regards, Bill Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan States Posted May 31, 2008 Share #9 Posted May 31, 2008 Your problem is not parallax. M7 and pretty much all M's only show about 85% of the actual frame at infinity. At closest distance they are pretty close to actual frame size. This is one of the reasons I still love my old Leica III. The 50mm frame is pretty close to 100% of the actual frame and I find it much easier to compose accurately. Best wishes Dan Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rob_x2004 Posted May 31, 2008 Share #10 Posted May 31, 2008 Overly simplistically Leica has to decide frameline size, location and now much a frame line will move in parallax adjustment as you focus on the subject. Frameline sizes dont change, but there is an angle of view, which is different to the lens. Where you think the subject is against the background is not what the lens sees. Difference can be huge. Most people dont seem to get their heads round the following. .....[ATTACH]89442[/ATTACH] Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
brianv Posted May 31, 2008 Share #11 Posted May 31, 2008 The M7 framelines have parallax correct, as do the other Leica M's. But the frame size as shown in the viewfinder remains constant as you focus. On the Konica S2 and Polaroid 180, the size of the frame also changes to reflect the actual field-of-view of the taking lens at the respective distance. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest jimmy pro Posted May 31, 2008 Share #12 Posted May 31, 2008 Your problem is not parallax. M7 and pretty much all M's only show about 85% of the actual frame at infinity. At closest distance they are pretty close to actual frame size. This is one of the reasons I still love my old Leica III. The 50mm frame is pretty close to 100% of the actual frame and I find it much easier to compose accurately. Best wishes Dan It's 100% at infinity, which means it's prolly 120% at 1m, not to mention there's no parralax correction. The screwmounts suck at close up unless you crop loose and mentally shift the image center down and right. Except cameras where the framelines change size, with any other rangefinder camera you hafta use your noggin. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
herbet Posted June 2, 2008 Author Share #13 Posted June 2, 2008 thanks for the replies and for sharing the knowledge guys. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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