roguewave Posted May 2, 2008 Share #1 Posted May 2, 2008 Advertisement (gone after registration) I know several members have used non-Leica digital SLR bodies with their Leica R lenses. I'm interested in getting a FF digital camera that lets me do all the work. No auto anything except to have a very accurate TTL metering system and a superb FF sensor and output in RAW. I'm not too keen on high iSO either, so I don't need all that crap that Canon stuffs in the box. I love my DMR and have no intent on selling it. I have an opportunity to do some work, but it requires the full frame with the lenses I need to get the captures. Any suggestions? I know next to nothing about the options. Thanks as always for your help in advance. Ben Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted May 2, 2008 Posted May 2, 2008 Hi roguewave, Take a look here Full Frame Digital SLR to use with R Lenses. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
Jamie Roberts Posted May 2, 2008 Share #2 Posted May 2, 2008 Hi Ben, As long as you're sticking with "full frame", I think your only option right now is Canon, since the EOS mount is wide enough to accomodate many R lenses by an adapter. (if you were after a cropped body, then the 4/3 system from Panasonic, Leica and Olympus would be an option as well, again, with an adapter). So your current choices are the Canon 5d, the 1ds (pretty old now, but nice at low ISOs), the 1ds2 and the 1ds3. The sweet spot for many of us is the 5d, which is a lovely camera, actually. It's smaller than all of the 1 series cameras, 12 mp full frame (just like the 1ds, IIRC) and is a good high ISO performer too. The Leica 28 Elmarit, 35 Cron, 50 lux / cron, 85 Lux, 100 APO macro and 180 Elmarit APO all work very well with the 5d, and you can even get focus-confirming adapters. So I would recommend one for use with R lenses--and they're a steal right now (there's also a rumour that Canon is about to replace the 5d, and it's true it's pretty old as Canon cameras go, but nothing has materialised just yet). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
colorflow Posted May 2, 2008 Share #3 Posted May 2, 2008 Hi Ben, As long as you're sticking with "full frame", I think your only option right now is Canon, since the EOS mount is wide enough to accomodate many R lenses by an adapter. (if you were after a cropped body, then the 4/3 system from Panasonic, Leica and Olympus would be an option as well, again, with an adapter). So your current choices are the Canon 5d, the 1ds (pretty old now, but nice at low ISOs), the 1ds2 and the 1ds3. The sweet spot for many of us is the 5d, which is a lovely camera, actually. It's smaller than all of the 1 series cameras, 12 mp full frame (just like the 1ds, IIRC) and is a good high ISO performer too. The Leica 28 Elmarit, 35 Cron, 50 lux / cron, 85 Lux, 100 APO macro and 180 Elmarit APO all work very well with the 5d, and you can even get focus-confirming adapters. So I would recommend one for use with R lenses--and they're a steal right now (there's also a rumour that Canon is about to replace the 5d, and it's true it's pretty old as Canon cameras go, but nothing has materialised just yet). Jamie: I've been thinking about the same thing. I do not have a DSLR, just an R8. So my options are a used DMR or one of the Canons. I prefer the lighter 5D especially at its current street price. However I've heard that its mirror may interfere with certain R lenses. I am particularly interested in using my 80 Lux, 35 Lux, and 19 Elmarit. I think there may be a problem with the 35 and 19??? Also wondering if the AA filter on the 5D would be too strong for my taste. I am used to the M8 files. Did have a 20D for a short time but thought the skin tones were too smooth. Would appreciate your thoughts on the 5D file vs M8 vs DMR. Thanks, Alan Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
delander † Posted May 2, 2008 Share #4 Posted May 2, 2008 Also wondering if the AA filter on the 5D would be too strong for my taste. Thanks, Alan I have the 5D as well as an M8 - no DMR I'm afraid. The 5D AA filter to my mind is relatively weak so I have never found the 5D files needing much sharpening. Resolution wise very similar to M8 with good lenses. If you had a 20D the handling of the 5D is virtually identical. The 5D is easily the best non-1-series DSLR Canon have made to date. Had mine 2+ years and it has seen a lot of work. It is 'dated' now in terms of the latest features but that should not worry a Leica user. Jeff Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
robsteve Posted May 2, 2008 Share #5 Posted May 2, 2008 Ben: If you need full frame for your project it is likely you need the wide angles. All of the widest Leica wide angles do not fit on Canon SLRs because the rear of the lens fouls the mirror. Robert Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wildlightphoto Posted May 2, 2008 Share #6 Posted May 2, 2008 ... I prefer the lighter 5D especially at its current street price. However I've heard that its mirror may interfere with certain R lenses. I am particularly interested in using my 80 Lux, 35 Lux, and 19 Elmarit. I think there may be a problem with the 35 and 19??? The 35mm Summilux-R will not fit the 5D without modifying either the camera or the lens. Likewise for the current version of the 19mm Elmarit-R. Would appreciate your thoughts on the 5D file vs M8 vs DMR. Those who have owned and used both the 5D and DMR (not myself) have indicated a clear preference for the DMR's files, at least in RAW mode. In particular the image detail, color quality and ability to pull detail out of shadow areas are the DMR's strong points. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
roguewave Posted May 2, 2008 Author Share #7 Posted May 2, 2008 Advertisement (gone after registration) Jamie & Jeff thanks for the info. Robert & Doug, therein lies the rub. I need to use both of the 19's, the 15, the 24 and the 35lux. Does any other solution work? Thanks for your time and expert advice. Ben Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
psquared Posted May 2, 2008 Share #8 Posted May 2, 2008 If you don't want to modify the mirror on the camera or the lenses, then the only option for a full-frame DSLR is a 1Ds3. You can use the wide angle Leica lenses on a 1Ds3 if you use Live View. The mirror is up during Live View so there is no concern about the mirror hitting the lens. And with 10X view, focusing is a snap. I used to think Live View was just a gimmick, but it really does help with focusing -- even more than the 2.5X angle finder. Granted, the DMR files are superior. But, the 1Ds3 files do definitely have more resolution than DMR just because of the number of megapixels. There is also the old Kodak DCS Pro SLR/C. I don't know if there are problems using Leica lenses on it, though. Peter Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
robsteve Posted May 2, 2008 Share #9 Posted May 2, 2008 Jamie & Jeff thanks for the info. Robert & Doug, therein lies the rub. I need to use both of the 19's, the 15, the 24 and the 35lux. Does any other solution work? Thanks for your time and expert advice. Ben Film in the R9 will give you full frame With a 5D, you can get the mirror shaved so it clears, but I don't know if you wat to go through the expense and effort. Robert Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
colorflow Posted May 2, 2008 Share #10 Posted May 2, 2008 Film in the R9 will give you full frame With a 5D, you can get the mirror shaved so it clears, but I don't know if you wat to go through the expense and effort. Robert Robert: I have heard about that. Do you know anyone who would do that? Thanks, Alan Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamie Roberts Posted May 2, 2008 Share #11 Posted May 2, 2008 Yeah--just to chime on on the key points, the 19, 35 Lux and a couple of others don't work without modifying the mirror or the lens shrouds. I don't want to do either of those things I don't know for sure if the 19 & 35 will fit a 1ds3 yet, though my late version 35 Lux would not work on my 1ds2 (didn't have the 19 then, so I don't know). I also own the DMR, and while the 5d files are very good--and I actually think it's one of the best overall dSLR Canon has produced to date in terms of file quality and handling--the DMR's files are much, much better. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
robsteve Posted May 2, 2008 Share #12 Posted May 2, 2008 Robert: I have heard about that. Do you know anyone who would do that? Thanks, Alan That is part of the effort, finding somebody to do it for you. You can try searching on the FredMiranda.com Alternative Digital forum. As far as I recall, there are no professional shops doing it, just dedicated enthusiasts. Robert Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
psquared Posted May 2, 2008 Share #13 Posted May 2, 2008 Yeah--just to chime on on the key points, the 19, 35 Lux and a couple of others don't work without modifying the mirror or the lens shrouds. I don't want to do either of those things I don't know for sure if the 19 & 35 will fit a 1ds3 yet, though my late version 35 Lux would not work on my 1ds2 (didn't have the 19 then, so I don't know). I also own the DMR, and while the 5d files are very good--and I actually think it's one of the best overall dSLR Canon has produced to date in terms of file quality and handling--the DMR's files are much, much better. No question about the superiority of the DMR files. The 1Ds3 mirror box may be more "tolerant" of Leica wide angles than the previous versions of the 1Ds. I know I couldn't use the 35-70 elmarit before, but now it's usable on my 1Ds3. Initially it caught the mirror on the way down occasionally, but now, no problem. The mirror and the shroud may have shaved off the fraction of mm to accomodate each other. I do have the current version of 19 Elmarit, but it already had undergone surgery by Jack Flesher to work in 1Ds2 and 5D, so I don't know if an unmodified 19 will work. I do not have an R 35 any more, since I sold it when I got the M8 and the 35 lux asph. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
colorflow Posted May 2, 2008 Share #14 Posted May 2, 2008 Yeah--just to chime on on the key points, the 19, 35 Lux and a couple of others don't work without modifying the mirror or the lens shrouds. I don't want to do either of those things I don't know for sure if the 19 & 35 will fit a 1ds3 yet, though my late version 35 Lux would not work on my 1ds2 (didn't have the 19 then, so I don't know). I also own the DMR, and while the 5d files are very good--and I actually think it's one of the best overall dSLR Canon has produced to date in terms of file quality and handling--the DMR's files are much, much better. So I guess what I really want is the DMR file quality in a 5D body whose mirror does not interfere with Leica wides ... Guess will just sit tight and see what the 5D 2 or the R10 bring. Alan Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
roguewave Posted May 2, 2008 Author Share #15 Posted May 2, 2008 Film in the R9 will give you full frame Robert, I agree. This looks like the only solution for now. And not a bad one either. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamie Roberts Posted May 2, 2008 Share #16 Posted May 2, 2008 So I guess what I really want is the DMR file quality in a 5D body whose mirror does not interfere with Leica wides ... Guess will just sit tight and see what the 5D 2 or the R10 bring. Alan Amen--hopefully, the R10 will be a 5d2 killer on price as well as IQ. Hey--I can dream! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iron Flatline Posted May 2, 2008 Share #17 Posted May 2, 2008 Amen--hopefully, the R10 will be a 5d2 killer on price as well as IQ. Hey--I can dream! I'm dreamin' right along with ya... Heck, let it cost more, but make it work! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlanG Posted May 3, 2008 Share #18 Posted May 3, 2008 Jamie & Jeff thanks for the info. Robert & Doug, therein lies the rub. I need to use both of the 19's, the 15, the 24 and the 35lux. Does any other solution work? Thanks for your time and expert advice. Ben Why not rent a Nikon D3 with 14-24 and a 35mm? Or rent a full frame Canon with the lenses you need? That way your investment will be minimal, you'll have no hassles and you can see if it will do what you need. You are in NYC so it should be pretty easy. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
roguewave Posted May 4, 2008 Author Share #19 Posted May 4, 2008 Why not rent a Nikon D3 with 14-24 and a 35mm? Or rent a full frame Canon with the lenses you need? That way your investment will be minimal, you'll have no hassles and you can see if it will do what you need. You are in NYC so it should be pretty easy. Alan, pretty simple. My client & I want the best images possible. I can't see that happening without using Leica glass. For me, there is no turning back. Ben Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pgk Posted May 12, 2008 Share #20 Posted May 12, 2008 I've just started using Leica glass on my 1DS. For what its worth I'd say that in order of preference I like the files from my M8 most, the 1DS next and from the 5D third. Despite its age the 1DS produces excellent low ISO files with a more 'filmic' look about them than those from later models (including the 5D). This is my own very subjectively derived opinion, and although I've only just started using Leica glass on the 1DS my initial impressions are very good - files are very good indeed although not up to those from the M8 (sadly in Solms after an unexpected drop - still working fine but it rattled!). I'd be prepared to look into mirror modification but most of the lenses I anticipate using will probably work without any surgery with the exception of a 19mm (if I can locate one) which I believe only needs a rear 'shroud' cutting down. I have a repairer who is prepared to do this. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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