nhmitchell Posted March 28, 2008 Share #1 Posted March 28, 2008 Advertisement (gone after registration) Apple has released a new update for Aperture. The v2.1 patch incorporates two major changes, among these the inclusion of a Dodge & Burn plug-in, which adds brushes not only for dodging and burning, but also contrast, saturation, sharpening and blur. It just gets better and better. Nick Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted March 28, 2008 Posted March 28, 2008 Hi nhmitchell, Take a look here Aperture Update. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
rosuna Posted March 28, 2008 Share #2 Posted March 28, 2008 The problem is this: the edited image must be saved as a new TIFF file. You have duplicates. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ericperlberg Posted March 28, 2008 Share #3 Posted March 28, 2008 I don't use Aperture but this is a major development that finally puts Aperture above and beyond or should I say significantly cheaper/more powerful than the competition. I don't know how good their RAW interpretations are compared to the competition but: 1) Essentially the plug in architecture means we'll likely see many advanced plug ins for Aperture that were formerly only found in Photoshop like noise reduction, film grain options, colour options, maybe an adjustment tool like the amazing NIK Viveza, etc. all of which are essentially layer tools. 2) The included plug in called Dodge and Burn (see demo movie here is essentially a local adjustment tool which makes Aperture the only RAW developer with local adjustments (like photoshop layer adjustments) for levels/curves, saturation and contrast including feathering and masking. While Lightroom also has a plug in architecture from what I've read Adobe is not letting certain kinds of plugins work with it yet, ie, those plugins which would negate the Lightroom user buying Photoshop (mostly which revolve around local adjustments and masking). So what I think Apple has done here is say you can buy Aperture for £129 (or € or $ or whatever) or you can buy Lightroom (or Capture One etc) and Photoshop for £1000. I can't see how this is not a challenge to Adobe... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ericperlberg Posted March 28, 2008 Share #4 Posted March 28, 2008 The problem is this: the edited image must be saved as a new TIFF file. You have duplicates. With the money you save by not buying photoshop you can buy roughly 7 terabytes of HD drive space. You don't need to use the plugins on every file, just the one's where you think its worth saving. Also, this is no different than round tripping in either Aperture or Lightroom where a tiff file gets generated. Sorry to sound like a fan boy, I don't even use Aperture. I just think its a major development in the software wars. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rosuna Posted March 28, 2008 Share #5 Posted March 28, 2008 It is not a question of HD space alone. When you change a parameter in Aperture or Lightroom you don't make an additional transformation to an image. Simply, you re-read the RAW file under new conditions. This is non-destructive processing. However, when you have a TIFF, the image is "closed", and any additional or future change implies son kind of loss in the original image. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ericperlberg Posted March 28, 2008 Share #6 Posted March 28, 2008 It is not a question of HD space alone. When you change a parameter in Aperture or Lightroom you don't make an additional transformation to an image. Simply, you re-read the RAW file under new conditions. This is non-destructive processing. Yes, thank you for clarifying that However, when you have a TIFF, the image is "closed", and any additional or future change implies son kind of loss in the original image This is no different than what currently happens if you want to do any post-processing in photoshop. There are just certain things you can't manipulate in a RAW file and those of us who use photoshop to do things like local area adjustments, further noise reduction, more sophisticated sharpening, grain additions, etc accept that a 16 bit Tiff file isn't a RAW file but its still a very high quality source good enough for the highest quality professional work. I don't see any reason why, after the initial conversion to a tiff file there should be any further loss of quality with additional work in Aperture. What isn't clear to me at the moment is how the software handles sequential plugins on this tiff file vis a vis history states. I still see this as a major software development. If you don't, I'm happy to leave it at that... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ericperlberg Posted March 28, 2008 Share #7 Posted March 28, 2008 Advertisement (gone after registration) Appleinsider is now reporting that Apple is working with the developers of the following plugins for use in Aperture: Nik Software’s Viveza plug-in, powered by U Point technology, which provides a powerful, precise and easy way for photographers to selectively control and adjust color and light in their digital images PictureCode’s Noise Ninja plug-in that delivers advanced high ISO noise analysis and reduction Digital Film Tools’ Power Stroke plug-in that features a simple, stroke-based interface to quickly mask and intuitively perform targeted adjustments The Tiffen Company's Dfx plug-in that provides an expansive suite of creative filters and effects dvGarage’s dpMatte plug-in, which is a high performance chroma key tool for creating seamless composites, and the HDRtoner plug-in that enables the selection of multiple photos to create a single high dynamic range (HDR) image and Image Trends’ plug-ins that include Fisheye-Hemi to quickly and effortlessly correct fisheye lens distortion, ShineOff which automatically removes shine from faces and PearlyWhites that automatically whitens and brightens teeth. While each of us may only be interested in a subset of these and other plugins... It just gets better and better. Nick I think you pegged it Nick. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rosuna Posted March 28, 2008 Share #8 Posted March 28, 2008 Local adjustments on RAW files can be done. The problem is in the complexity of the instructions, and the processing time these changes require. When you make any change in the RAW instructions, the applications must re-interpret all the sequence of instructions for a new updated preview, and this is slow. My favorite feature is U point control. You can see it in Nikon Capture NX. There is a plug-in for Photoshop too: NIK Viveza. I think Nikon's software works on the RAW, by means of instructions. Nikon Capture NX Viveza I would like to see this idea in Lightroom! The dodge and burn feature for Aperture is great, but it affects the workflow. I don't like a Lightroom/Aperture + PHotoshop workflow just because the RAW + instructions approach is broken, and duplicates appear. This Aperture plug-in introduces the same problem. Aperture 2.1 is really great, but I will wait to see the next version of Lightroom. I work with it now, but I will change if Adobe keeps Lightroom as a mere RAW-reader for a Photoshop-based workflow. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rosuna Posted March 29, 2008 Share #9 Posted March 29, 2008 Interesting new plug-ins are coming: Rob Galbraith DPI: Image editing plug-ins the centrepiece of Aperture 2.1 R. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Samir Jahjah Posted March 30, 2008 Share #10 Posted March 30, 2008 Local adjustments on RAW files can be done. The problem is in the complexity of the instructions, and the processing time these changes require. When you make any change in the RAW instructions, the applications must re-interpret all the sequence of instructions for a new updated preview, and this is slow. The most advanced RAW conerter that allows you local adjustments remains, to the best of my knowledge, LIGHTZONE. It remains unsurpassed, non-destructive, and does not generate heavy TIFF files. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rosuna Posted March 30, 2008 Share #11 Posted March 30, 2008 Yes: LightZone : Advanced photo editing made simple R. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mreddington Posted March 30, 2008 Share #12 Posted March 30, 2008 Lightzone shows that local non-destructive editing is possible. There are some interesting hints of something to come from Adobe about LR , perhaps already this week, here: Adobe Forums - Aperture 2.1 released - with plug-ins Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ericperlberg Posted March 30, 2008 Share #13 Posted March 30, 2008 The most advanced RAW conerter that allows you local adjustments remains, to the best of my knowledge, LIGHTZONE. It remains unsurpassed, non-destructive, and does not generate heavy TIFF files. Yes, I stand corrected, Lightzone does have some local adjustment like abilities. Whether its the most advanced converter or not hinges on what you mean by advanced. It's tool set is unique. I've used it but never could get enthusiastic about it but that's just an individual preference. From a pure image quality point of view I always thought phase one Capture 3.7-4 was the best for straight processing on my M8 files but I like to play with my files and I never found capture one 4 very powerful in that regard. To me, the best RAW converter like the best camera and the best lens are the ones with which you do your best work with and feel the most empowered by. That's why I've stuck with Lightroom and CS3. But I still think Apple has a game changer in Aperture and I think that will be reflected in the popularity of Aperture over the next months after the plugins are out and word spreads. Many of us in the UK learned a hard lesson about Adobe when the pricing for CS3 upgrades came out and we were charged a shockingly significant amount over the price of what US customers paid, I can't remember now how much more it was (the mind has that wonderful ability to obliterate painful events) but it was extravagant and unjustified. I don't know how Adobe priced the CS3 suite on the continent but at that point Adobe lost me as a customer. As I've retired from doing professional graphic design work I'll be very happy if Apple's plugin architecture makes Aperture a photoshop competitor for photographers. I could learn to live within its workflow if I had to though I don't find it as intuitive as Lightroom. In any case I found Aperture 2.0 much more Lightroom like in organisation when I tried the demo. Obviously Tiff files seem to be an issue for the two of you. Working with Photoshop its never been an issue with me. To each their own... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ericperlberg Posted March 30, 2008 Share #14 Posted March 30, 2008 Lightzone shows that local non-destructive editing is possible. There are some interesting hints of something to come from Adobe about LR , perhaps already this week, here: Adobe Forums - Aperture 2.1 released - with plug-ins Yes, this thread sums up the issue for Lightroom users doesn't it. Since Jeff Schewe is really tight with the Lightroom development group and since he's named a date and suggested a major change and hinted at what that change is, its likely he knows something that most don't. On the other hand, only a few weeks ago John Nack (Lightroom marketing manager I think) posted on his blog that the SDK kit would not allow photoshop like plugins. Just supposition but perhaps Adobe had a plan B in case Aperture did come up with an attack on Photoshop but were keeping it mum in hopes of selling photoshop to photographers even though its mostly overkill given its huge feature set. April 2 isn't far away so we'll know what Schewe knows soon enough. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rosuna Posted March 30, 2008 Share #15 Posted March 30, 2008 Jeff Schewe - 11:21am Mar 29, 08 PST (#17 of 34) Bradley, what are you gonna be doing next Wed, April 2nd? (I actually already know what you'll be doing but I can't really tell ya) Rendering out the raw file to run a Photoshop type plug-in on the gamma encoded file (making a tiff) is NOT the way I want to be dealing with raw files. Dodge/Burn, and optimal output sharpening can/should/will all be done right in the raw workflow. That would be the Lightroom way... Adobe Forums - Aperture 2.1 released - with plug-ins . Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
fjmcsu Posted March 31, 2008 Share #16 Posted March 31, 2008 visiting the Viveza site & ran into this pronouncement Nik Software, Inc. | Viveza Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rosuna Posted April 2, 2008 Share #17 Posted April 2, 2008 Lightroom strikes back: Adobe Labs - Adobe Lightroom 2.0 Beta Adobe Photoshop Lightroom 2.0 Public Beta The Luminous Landscape . Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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