etienne_werner Posted March 12, 2008 Share #1 Â Posted March 12, 2008 Advertisement (gone after registration) Just had a phone conversation with someone I know who is working for a Dutch company that does the Leica distribution in this country. He told me that, I believe next week, all the international distributors of Leica cameras had been asked to come to Solms for a meeting where they will be updated on all the developments of Leica. Â He was very happy with the change of leadership and said that stores and distributors should be far better off with Mr. Kaufmann, as Mr. Lee had bypassed them on too many occasions. Â When I asked if Leica is working on an auto focus R, he said that he was pretty sure they were. I am sure you all understand that this in no way is an official statement from Leica and that I have no way of checking if his info is valid. On the other hand I do believe this would be a logical step for them to make in the evolution of the R system and too possibly expand their market with a younger generation of photographers. Â Kind regards, Â Etienne Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted March 12, 2008 Posted March 12, 2008 Hi etienne_werner, Take a look here Meeting Lecia distributors. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
sdai Posted March 12, 2008 Share #2 Â Posted March 12, 2008 I can safely bet that the new camera will be called something else instead of "R10", and it won't be directly compatible with existing R lenses. Â 100 dollars, the first one who leak the spec. on this forum can take it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
etienne_werner Posted March 12, 2008 Author Share #3  Posted March 12, 2008 I can safely bet that the new camera will be called something else instead of "R10", and it won't be directly compatible with existing R lenses. 100 dollars, the first one who leak the spec. on this forum can take it.  My feeling (probably totally unfounded) is that the new camera will be downward compatible so as not to leave the existing user base out in the cold. This would be like the Nikon camera's that can still use the older non- auto focus lenses. I believe that eventually many of these users would progressively buy AF lenses too.  Regards, Etienne Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sdai Posted March 12, 2008 Share #4 Â Posted March 12, 2008 My feeling (probably totally unfounded) is that the new camera will be downward compatible so as not to leave the existing user base out in the cold. This would be like the Nikon camera's that can still use the older non- auto focus lenses. I believe that eventually many of these users would progressively buy AF lenses too. Â If you've read the last interview with Dr. Kaufmann ... he only said there will be a SLR, he didn't mention the "R" and declined to comment on the compatibility issue. Â We'll "get a clue" at this year's Photokina. Â Theoretically, you can hope ... and it won't happen soon. Â Auto focus won't interest me, as I have already have Canon AND Nikon ... if I'm looking into that, I will NOT waste my money on a THIRD system. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
FastFashnReloaded Posted March 12, 2008 Share #5  Posted March 12, 2008 If you've read the last interview with Dr. Kaufmann ... he only said there will be a SLR, he didn't mention the "R" and declined to comment on the compatibility issue. We'll "get a clue" at this year's Photokina.  Theoretically, you can hope ... and it won't happen soon.  Auto focus won't interest me, as I have already have Canon AND Nikon ... if I'm looking into that, I will NOT waste my money on a THIRD system.  Auto focus is here to stay, and a primary reason for the R system NOT being competitive is lack of AF. New Leica SLRs need AF, even if that means that Leica partners with someone else, like Panasonic, to develop motors and logic. I am interested in seeing what Leica comes out with, and hoping for mid range lenses and high end lenses too, 'cause I can't afford to spend a months pay on one 28-90mm standard zoom, thanks anyway.  So sdai, if you aren't interested in a Leica SLR system then why are you even on this forum, wasting our time?  Lalala... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sdai Posted March 12, 2008 Share #6 Â Posted March 12, 2008 Â So sdai, if you aren't interested in a Leica SLR system then why are you even on this forum, wasting our time? Â Lalala... Â I'll call your mom to take you home, son. My apologies to forum members. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
gravastar Posted March 12, 2008 Share #7 Â Posted March 12, 2008 Advertisement (gone after registration) I'll call your mom to take you home, son. My apologies to forum members. Â Don't do that you might be held responsible for: warning for language on the last line. Â Â Bob. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
etienne_werner Posted March 12, 2008 Author Share #8  Posted March 12, 2008 If you've read the last interview with Dr. Kaufmann ... he only said there will be a SLR, he didn't mention the "R" and declined to comment on the compatibility issue. We'll "get a clue" at this year's Photokina.  Theoretically, you can hope ... and it won't happen soon.  Auto focus won't interest me, as I have already have Canon AND Nikon ... if I'm looking into that, I will NOT waste my money on a THIRD system.  You're right about Kaufmann mentioning an SLR and not R. My bad. But wouldn't you agree that a downward compatible SLR with the older R lenses would keep both new and older users happy and as mentioned this has already been done by (at least) Nikon and of course the M8 (though this is a real M). This of course is nothing more than speculation on my side. Regards,  Etienne Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wparsonsgisnet Posted March 12, 2008 Share #9 Â Posted March 12, 2008 Well, we know from the Digilux-2, for example, that a Leica-designed lens can feature auto-focus (sorry, that's the only one I have direct experience with, there must be more). Â In addition to the D2, I also use a Panasonic X100(now camera that features a Vario-whatsit lens. This, too, makes wonderful images. Â It is also true that even tho the D2 makes wonderful images, that there is a big difference between the Vario-whatsit and Leica-M prime lenses. Â So, the challenge is for Leica to make the glass and include the technology that Panasonic can provide. Â This gives new meaning to the NiCanOlyPanus term that someone coined some time ago, and that got such heat. We can have new threads now, trying to come up with wonderful names, like Peica, Lanosonic, and the like, for these new lenses. Â Leica does seem to be managing their joint manufacturing relationships quite well. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sdai Posted March 12, 2008 Share #10 Â Posted March 12, 2008 But wouldn't you agree that a downward compatible SLR with the older R lenses would keep both new and older users happy and as mentioned this has already been done by (at least) Nikon and of course the M8 (though this is a real M). This of course is nothing more than speculation on my side. Â I absolutely agree with you, Etienne ... and I believe that 99.99% current R users will agree as well. Â All I want is adding sufficient electronics and a good sensor into the R9 ... plus focus confirmation (easy). That's enough. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
FastFashnReloaded Posted March 12, 2008 Share #11 Â Posted March 12, 2008 I absolutely agree with you, Etienne ... and I believe that 99.99% current R users will agree as well. Â All I want is adding sufficient electronics and a good sensor into the R9 ... plus focus confirmation (easy). That's enough. Â But current R users are like Ron Paul supporters, sdai. They can't close the deal, and they aren't buying enough Rs to matter. In other words, if Leica can put together a new Leica SLR system and make any kinds of sales at all then the new owners will completely swamp the old guard and their calls to stay with manual focus and the old R mount. Â I suspect that, poorly as it probably did, that far more Digilux 3 and DMC-L1s were sold in a year than R8s and R9s in the past decade. Â How many digital backs were sold for the R8 and R9? That should give us some idea as to the level of support for the current R system in the 21st Century. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pascal_meheut Posted March 12, 2008 Share #12 Â Posted March 12, 2008 How many digital backs were sold for the R8 and R9? That should give us some idea as to the level of support for the current R system in the 21st Century. Â All the production, faster than expected and prices on the 2nd hand market are remarkably high. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
FastFashnReloaded Posted March 12, 2008 Share #13 Â Posted March 12, 2008 All the production, faster than expected and prices on the 2nd hand market are remarkably high. Â Yes, but how many were produced? A thousand? Three thousand? A few hundred? Â I remember people whining on here about DMR firmware and crop factors and such, and they were made June '05 to Feb '07 or therebouts, yes? One year, seven months, not a bad lifespan for a digital anything. However, did it revive the R line of cameras? I don't think so... People still preferring to take R lenses and put them on Canons? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
stunsworth Posted March 12, 2008 Share #14 Â Posted March 12, 2008 People still preferring to take R lenses and put them on Canons? Â If I'd have had an R8 when the DMR was announced I would have been very tempted to get that rather than the 5D. By the time the M8 was announced I had an R8, and the early issues with the M8 made me consider buying a DMR rather than the M8, but I held my nerve and bought the M8 <grin> Â Cost is also a factor. The DMR + R9 was a very high cost item, obviously for anyone already owning an R8/9 the decision was somewhat easier. Â I can't remember the production figures for the DMR, but from memory it was several thousands. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
FastFashnReloaded Posted March 12, 2008 Share #15 Â Posted March 12, 2008 If I'd have had an R8 when the DMR was announced I would have been very tempted to get that rather than the 5D. By the time the M8 was announced I had an R8, and the early issues with the M8 made me consider buying a DMR rather than the M8, but I held my nerve and bought the M8 <grin>Â Cost is also a factor. The DMR + R9 was a very high cost item, obviously for anyone already owning an R8/9 the decision was somewhat easier. Â I can't remember the production figures for the DMR, but from memory it was several thousands. Â Thanks Steve. Â So, in... two years Leica sold several thousand DMRs with or without R cameras ('cause many people already had R8s and 9s). Â Now how many Digilux 3s, Digilux 2s, DMC-L1s (etc) were sold? Â The R series of cameras is NOT a winner for Leica at this point. There is no reason for them to continue making a variation on the R8 or R9, because there really aren't that many of them out there, and a new one at the price they would have to sell at just is not competitive. The installed user base is pretty low. Â Better to adapt a more moderately priced AF SLR solution, with good AF lenses (some just Leica designed and some Leica made) with an entirely new mount and sell adapters to people who insist on using the old lens line. Â Improve the M! Keep up the PanaLeica cooperation. Make a really good point and shoot that only belongs to Leica. Â Should GM have kept making Oldsmobiles, or cut their losses and put the money they would have used into retooling that brand into brands that had a better chance of survival? Scrap Oldsmobile! Put the money into Pontiac, Chevy, Buick... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pascal_meheut Posted March 12, 2008 Share #16 Â Posted March 12, 2008 Yes, but how many were produced? A thousand? Three thousand? A few hundred? Â More than 3000, 3500 if I remember correctly. Â Better to adapt a more moderately priced AF SLR solution, with good AF lenses (some just Leica designed and some Leica made) with an entirely new mount and sell adapters to people who insist on using the old lens line. Â At the risk of losing the current base of users. If Leica does not offer the same level of compatibility Nikon and others offered, why would I stay with them ? Just for the lenses ? I can use many of them on a Canon or if I switch to Nikon, the recent zooms seem to do very good on the D3. It seems that the 14-24/2.8 is maybe even better than much more expensive 15mm/2.8 ASPH R. This strategy did not work very well for Contax. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
FastFashnReloaded Posted March 12, 2008 Share #17 Â Posted March 12, 2008 More than 3000, 3500 if I remember correctly. Â Geex... Worse than I thought. So, you might have 3500 people who are just MAD for a new R? A business in the global market won't cross the road for 3500 people. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
FastFashnReloaded Posted March 12, 2008 Share #18  Posted March 12, 2008 More than 3000, 3500 if I remember correctly.   At the risk of losing the current base of users. If Leica does not offer the same level of compatibility Nikon and others offered, why would I stay with them ? Just for the lenses ? I can use many of them on a Canon or if I switch to Nikon, the recent zooms seem to do very good on the D3. It seems that the 14-24/2.8 is maybe even better than much more expensive 15mm/2.8 ASPH R. This strategy did not work very well for Contax.  Pascal, if you and 3500 people all promised to buy a camera, today, in writing and put down a deposit... Let's see, say five thousand dollars a camera and lens, 3500 people...  Seventeen million dollars. That wouldn't pay for tooling, ads and factory space. That's NOTHING.  You don't have a base! You barely have a Monty Python fan club. We got more people than that to turn out for the first Star Trek convention in 1972, I believe. 15,000 people bought tickets to the Las Vegas Trek convention in 2005!  If I were Leica I'd be asking, who are the NEW users we have to attract, not the few guys with $5k for an SLR body who can afford to spend $2k per lens, but people who can spend $1600 and get a nice little kit lens and a body. I can afford $1600 for a new, Leica body with PDG lenses. I can afford a Digilux (though it is seriously obsolete at this point). I can afford an Oly E-3 or a used Canon 5D (or refurb) or D-300. I'm in the target demographic. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rosuna Posted March 12, 2008 Share #19 Â Posted March 12, 2008 If I were Leica I'd be asking, who are the NEW users we have to attract, not the few guys with $5k for an SLR body who can afford to spend $2k per lens, but people who can spend $1600 and get a nice little kit lens and a body. I can afford $1600 for a new, Leica body with PDG lenses. Â Other companies are specialized in that kind of products, having large economies of scale. Leica cannot play that game. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
FastFashnReloaded Posted March 12, 2008 Share #20 Â Posted March 12, 2008 Other companies are specialized in that kind of products, having large economies of scale. Leica cannot play that game. Â That's why you have partners! That's why there are BMW engines in Bentley automobiles. That's why VW and Porsche collaborate! That's why you have Panasonic. "Purists" may malign these types of cooperation, but if you want Leica to continue to exist, then get off your cross. Â The R system as it exists does not have the user base to be viable, PERIOD. It has to change, just as Ducati and Bentley/Rolls and Land Rover and Jaguar and AC and Apple (etc) had to change. Â If you want to say that Leicas cannot be Panasonics, and Panasonics cannot be Leicas and we have to use our old lenses and the R can never go auto focus then you might as well pack it in and sell all your old stuff now, because if there is no change then there is decay and death. You want a new Leica SLR? Better be flexible and forgiving in your opinions and statements. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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