Wedding photography advice

[rubenkok]

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Hi Naresh,

 

Have a look here, maybe this is some help

Marc Andrew Williams:

Fotografz Romantic Photojournalism - Candid and Formal Wedding Photography

Photos by Marc Williams - Franklin/Mich. - photo.net

and

Jeff's website:

Wedding Photographer, Wedding Photography, Wedding Photojournalist, Derbyshire, Lancashire, Manchester, Liverpool, London

The Available Light Wedding Washington Post artikel

Camera Works: Photo Essay (washingtonpost.com)

 

 

Riccis,

Stunning images, just magnificent work !!

 

All the best

Ruben

[Singlemalt]

Thank you for all the great advice!

 

Looks like I have a lot of reading to look forward to

 

Trust me - there is no way I want to get in the professional's way. There is no point in me taking the same pictures as him. Hopefully I can bring something different to the table.

 

I'm amazed at all of the photo's that have been posted but that photo of Ricci's through the missing glass is inspirational. I know I would have seen that glass and thought nothing more - what triggered you to take that shot? Did it remind you of something you had seen before? What was different? What do you look for when you go to a site? Are you looking for where the best light is? The interesting parts of the architecture you want to get into frame? The colour? How are you going to get the key players in frame?

 

Everytime I visit a place I want to photograph I'm always looking for something "different". It's weird - with my early experience with a dSLR it was all about looking for a different "viewpoint". With the m8 I'm constantly thinking about framing and composition. In fact I'm constantly thinking about so many things. That's why I love it.

 

If I muck up a shot then the fault is mine - not the 3rd spot on the AF sensor with smile recognition. I can, at least, improve.

 

Do you do most shots at f/2.0? The more "reportage" stuff at slower speeds? Individuals wide open? Does this even cross your mind?

 

Another question - and this may have been answered within some of the links posted that I WILL read - what do you look for when you are shooting in B&W? Most of my B&W stuff was only when I was doing a course at school. These days - up until the m8 - I mainly shot in first colour and then thought about B&W second. Now every shot I take I look at and wonder what it would be like in B&W? What are the tones like? Is the colour more of a distraction or does it add?

 

Oh yes.... I must remind myself. Shoot lots of kids. tick. (I hope this sentence is never taken out of context).

 

I will enjoy the wedding - don't worry about that. I expect my pictures will get blurry as the night goes on

 

Thanks again for all the information,

 

SM.

[Rolo]

But enjoy the wedding too. Your honest reaction to the moments "all around" the bride and groom will be a wonderful bonus for them, more than trying to plan out what you'll cover...

]

 

Excellent work Jamie. Really catch the moment with your great vision.

 

Thanks for sharing.

 

Rolo

[budrichard]

As a former Wedding Photographer who nows does an occasional Wedding with M6 and M7 and Kodachrome, here are some thoughts.

You NEED to plan, period. 'Shooting' from the hip' or other such nonsense will garner you junk. Visit the Chruch and learn the layout and prethink and with the M8, pre shoot your pics noting time of day and lighting. Visit the staging areas so you know the lighting, where they are and how to acess. With an M, going down the aisle or coming out of the church are the hardest as thier is no Auto Focus.

Talk with the person performing the ceremony about where you can and cannot shoot and whether you can or cannot use flash. Many have strict rules against what can and cannot be done. Usually I use K200 inside and K64 for outside and flash.

The 35mm lens is only useful for back of the church shots, from the choir loft, or capturing the whole assembledge, for all else a 90mm or the new 75mm Summcron is most useful. I use 35mm 1.4 ASPH, 75mm & 90mm APO's with Motor M's, an SF24 is available on my M7.

As far as the Pro getting paid to assure pictures, just stay out of his or her way, he or she will most likely be in your pictures but he doesn't want you in his/her pictures.

And is pointed out by many, have a good time! I really enjoy shooting Weddings.-Dick

[Jamie Roberts]

Dick, I have contradictory advice, so while yours is very good from one pro to another, I don't think a guest needs to think (or shoot) the same way. If I were a guest (and not the pro) I'd take advantage of that, so....

 

As a former Wedding Photographer who nows does an occasional Wedding with M6 and M7 and Kodachrome, here are some thoughts.

You NEED to plan, period. 'Shooting' from the hip' or other such nonsense will garner you junk. Visit the Chruch and learn the layout and prethink and with the M8, pre shoot your pics noting time of day and lighting.

 

Well, the pro needs to do this; I'm not sure the guest does Shooting from your emotional response, as a guest, is the best way to get shots the pro can't.

 

Visit the staging areas so you know the lighting, where they are and how to acess. With an M, going down the aisle or coming out of the church are the hardest as thier is no Auto Focus.

 

Yep it's zone focus all the way for a lot of action, especially if they're powering down the aisle and the light is low. Fortunatley, zone focus is quite easy and very reliable with a digital M, because you can chimp your spot. The DOF in a 35 doesn't hurt either. Pick a point and shoot when they're there. (truth to tell, I find this more reliable than tracking with AF).

 

Talk with the person performing the ceremony about where you can and cannot shoot and whether you can or cannot use flash. Many have strict rules against what can and cannot be done. Usually I use K200 inside and K64 for outside and flash.

Actually--DON'T bug the officiant and just see what you can get away with. Often the guests are given leave that the pros are not As long as you're in one place, and no-one tells you NOT to shoot; shoot away what you feel comfortable with. The pro will have to play by a different set of rules (usually more restrictive, but then pros have the capability, by being mobile, of being more intrusive).

 

The 35mm lens is only useful for back of the church shots, from the choir loft, or capturing the whole assembledge, for all else a 90mm or the new 75mm Summcron is most useful.

 

Huh? The 35 on the M8 is a 50 equivalent. So it's spectacular for small groups full-length (think 2 people). To me (along with the 28 FOV) it's actually one of the most useful lens in the bag.

 

I use 35mm 1.4 ASPH, 75mm & 90mm APO's with Motor M's, an SF24 is available on my M7.

 

LOL!! and there's the difference right there: crop vs non-crop. But even on my M6 and M3, I use the 35 and 50 more than the 75 (lux) and 90 (pre-ASPH) to capture more context. Different strokes. But to the OP--let the pro lug the teles around

{snipped}

[Jamie Roberts]

Excellent work Jamie. Really catch the moment with your great vision.

 

Thanks for sharing.

 

Rolo

 

Rolo--thanks very much--I really appreciate it!

 

I use the M8 a lot for "reportage " type wedding shots (I also shoot with a couple of dSLRs), but the detail and strength of the sensor means it's like having a mini-DMR in the bag for formals too, though you have to chimp the composition much more than a dSLR.

 

The non-distorting properties of the wide M lenses is absolutely great too. I also shot these with a Canon 16-35L V2 but the bride preferred the M shotst:

(these are right out of the RAW converter, BTW--not finished at all):

 

Elmarit 24; window light with a touch of 580 EX 2

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Elmarit 24; also mainly window light but filled a little bit with flash

 

But the candid stuff / available light stuff is amazing with the Leica wides, too:

 

Elmarit 24

 

Elmarit 21--tiny bit of fill here too.

 

Elmarit 21

[calvinboy24]

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Here's my contribution as a guest photographer at weddings I've been to.

 

I had the fortunate opportunity at my Sister's wedding to be allowed to shot unobstructed and without concern from the hired photographer. He was tremendously nice and simply said: "Snap away!". He even went on to ask me for my photo website after the ceremony and even critiqued my work. Perhaps a rarity, but it certainly gave me the opportunity to learn and practice flash work and photojournalistic style photography. I brought all my SLR equipment as if I were a hired photographer and I think this was a great and rare opportunity without much pressure of making sure I had to deliver to a client (i.e. my sister).

 

I caveat this experience by saying that my sister asked me to prescreen and recommend the photographer, and since I like this particular photographer's work and his responses, I recommended him. In prescreening other wedding photographers, I specifically asked their opinion on others with prosumer camera equipment taking photos. The responses ranged from "no problem", "sure, as long as you don't get in my way" to "no way at all". Every photographer is different.

 

At my cousin's wedding this past fall, I brought my SLR and this time was in a more similar position where I wanted to hang back, let the professional do their work, and enjoy the wedding to boot. At the beginning of the ceremony, the photographer looked at my camera, asked, "what camera is that?" and when I replied "5D with a 24-70", he seemed to be taken a back a little. From that point forward, I made obvious moves to show him that I wouldn't get in his way, such as staying clear when he was taking family group photos and couple shots. I also waited until some with a P&S would start taking photos, then join in. Of course my family was egging me on to take more photos, but I persisted in letting the photographer do his job and still got to enjoy the wedding.

 

All of this was before I got the M8. I think having a rangefinder with a fixed focal length and manual focus changes the perspective a lot. Its more discreet, quiet, and there's a lot more thought process than snapping away with a P&S or even an SLR. For one thing, I think any hired wedding photographer seeing a Leica in your hands will garner respect, since they'll know they aren't probably dealing with Uncle Bob with his D40x in fully auto mode or Aunt Sally with her iPhone taking photos.

 

In all, it really depends on who your going to be taking these pictures for. I'd assume that you'd eventually give the couple your photos you took, and this may help you decide what type of shots you are looking for. If the couple is more into traditional style of photos, then you might need to cater to their style instead of what my sister called "artistic" style.

 

Lastly, after my sister's wedding, I purposely waited to post my final editted images until the professional had given my Sister the proofs. I did not want in any way to influence her decision as to which photos to include in her album based on free photos that she could've gotten from me.

 

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[Riccis]

Riccis,

Stunning images, just magnificent work !!

 

Thanks, Ruben

 

 

I'm amazed at all of the photo's that have been posted but that photo of Ricci's through the missing glass is inspirational. I know I would have seen that glass and thought nothing more - what triggered you to take that shot? Did it remind you of something you had seen before? What was different? What do you look for when you go to a site? Are you looking for where the best light is? The interesting parts of the architecture you want to get into frame? The colour? How are you going to get the key players in frame?

 

 

Once again, I appreciate all the kind comments about my work. Let me start by giving you a little background on my business and shooting style. I only accept about 20-25 weddings per year (depending on my travel schedule), after that I stop accepting commissions regardless of the size of the budget. It is very important for my clients to understand my style which entails me having 100% creative freedom (that is no shot lists, minimal posed shots usually 5 minutes for the clients that want them). What this allows me is the freedom to look for the interesting shots (such as the one you liked) without having anyone come to me and tell me what to shoot or what to do.

 

Like I stated before, I never go to a site before the wedding day or try to bring previsualized images that I want to do, since IMHO if I do this I am not telling the story of my client's wedding day and instead just settling for the safe shots.

 

I am always on the move, looking for an interesting and uncommon shots (this not always works, of course) and this is how I saw the image of the missing glass. As I saw the church lady going through it, I knew I had to get the bride coming through it. This takes a lot of instinct since it was just split seconds before the bride was framed and I took the shot.

 

I always try to move as much as possible in order to capture the best light, but unfortunately this is not always possible. If the perfect moment is there but the light is crappy I don't hesitate and take the shot, after all I am going for the real moments that capture the essence of my client's wedding day and I'll take great scenes in shitty light anytime before a crappy shot without any context in the most beautiful light.

 

Do you do most shots at f/2.0? The more "reportage" stuff at slower speeds? Individuals wide open? Does this even cross your mind?

 

Another question - and this may have been answered within some of the links posted that I WILL read - what do you look for when you are shooting in B&W? Most of my B&W stuff was only when I was doing a course at school. These days - up until the m8 - I mainly shot in first colour and then thought about B&W second. Now every shot I take I look at and wonder what it would be like in B&W? What are the tones like? Is the colour more of a distraction or does it add?

 

Thanks again for all the information,

 

SM.

 

I love to shoot wide open and always try to shoot at f/2 or faster... The only times that I go to f/5.6 or f/8 is where I shoot the 5 minutes family formals.

 

I always shoot in color and make the B&W decisions during post-production. It all depends on how I felt when I took the shot, the mood of the wedding location, the weather, etc... Just like when I am shooting, I also avoid having predetermined ideas at post-processing time (i.e. some folks always do the getting ready in B&W)

 

I hope this helps,

 

Have fun at the wedding and please post the results.

 

Best,

 

Riccis

[Albert4321]

Jamie, great stuff. I got the 508EX II due to your recommendations.. But I have not tried it with my M8 yet.

 

"going down the aisle or coming out of the church are the hardest as thier is no Auto Focus"

 

Yes, me too, I undetstand pre-focus or zone focus. But it seems you only get one shot, especially I like to shoot wide open. Then you need to turn around and do the hand shake, hugs, etc, even two bodies is hard withoug AF. old dog, new trick.

 

Jamie, did u do A mode on those 580EX II fill shots?

[Jamie Roberts]

Jamie, great stuff. I got the 508EX II due to your recommendations.. But I have not tried it with my M8 yet.

 

"going down the aisle or coming out of the church are the hardest as thier is no Auto Focus"

 

Yes, me too, I undetstand pre-focus or zone focus. But it seems you only get one shot, especially I like to shoot wide open. Then you need to turn around and do the hand shake, hugs, etc, even two bodies is hard withoug AF. old dog, new trick.

 

Jamie, did u do A mode on those 580EX II fill shots?

 

Hi Albert! Thanks so much for your comments...

 

Yes, I use the 580 in A mode, a stop or even a bit more below the key (window light). Since the window and the flash are both daylight balanced, the tungstens go warm, but I don't mind that. So I'm essentially exposing for the highlights and lighting for the shadows here; trying to make the flash look natural and not like flash!

 

The pre-focus thing is hard for sure, but so much easier than on film! I find that's when I use continuous with the M8 and will get off three or four with one, usually the first, just outside the zone. But that's not too bad. It would be a lot trickier with a long lens (longer than 90) and if I need to do that the 5d, with a 70-200, also comes out

[budrichard]

"DON'T bug the officiant and just see what you can get away with"

 

I find that statement irresponsible and offensive. Many Church's have strict rules on photography during weddings and believe it or not, some do not allow photography. Part of this is due to the philosophy of the Church and part is due to individuals interfering in the wedding with their photography.

Jamie Roberts

I won't rebut line by line your comments as you have felt the need to do with my comments, It would have been sufficient to have just Posted your thoughts and not the 'mano a mano' routine.-Dick

[Jamie Roberts]

"DON'T bug the officiant and just see what you can get away with"

 

I find that statement irresponsible and offensive. Many Church's have strict rules on photography during weddings and believe it or not, some do not allow photography. Part of this is due to the philosophy of the Church and part is due to individuals interfering in the wedding with their photography.

Jamie Roberts

I won't rebut line by line your comments as you have felt the need to do with my comments, It would have been sufficient to have just Posted your thoughts and not the 'mano a mano' routine.-Dick

 

Geez Dick--chill, please!

 

I didn't intend mano-a-mano at all. I'm truly sorry I offended you by the way I posted and by what I said (though honestly you should think more carefully before you call someone else's shooting style "sure to garner junk").

 

As a pro I know full well many churches have strict rules. I always consult the officiant, and always, always do what I'm told (it helps that my father was an officiant). I know full well that a pro taking liberty with the service or the space is a sure way to wreck things for other pros. I've done my time standing outside the church entirely and shooting with very long lenses; personally, I never block the view of the congregation OR get into any kind of sanctuary space.

 

But the guy asking for advice is NOT a pro. LOL!! In my experience, officiants don't expect to be asked by guests whether they can photograph or not! He won't be moving around, he'll be sitting with everyone else.

 

If they have strict rules, they will tell the congregation not to take photos. Ok? So, yes, abide by that. Stay put and shoot if you can--everyone else will be. Do what the officiant tells you.

 

If they don't say anything, then people will just shoot away, believe me. So, again, IMO, YMMV, with no offense to anyone---you're just courting trouble and bothering the officiant needlessly as a guest asking whether you can take pics!

 

Ok?

 

As for the other points, you have your opinion on useful lenses and I have mine; the M8 is a cropped body so that makes a difference right there.

[dalippe]

Riccis,

 

Great picture of the bride through the missing glass. It is great having a chance to hear you and the other pros talk about your approach and illustrate the results.

 

A technical question about the shot through the missing glass: How did you focus? I'm assuming this was an M, hence manual focus. There wouldn't be time to focus once the bride was in place because presumably she was just walking through. You couldn't pre-focus because there was nothing but empty space before she stepped in front of the window. Did you just guess the distance, set the lens and hope for the best?

 

Thanks for the information!

 

David

[Riccis]

David:

 

Believe it or not, I focused on the bride. I shot this with the 35 cron and I am very fast at focusing the smaller Leica lenses (21, 24, 28, 35 and 50)... As stated before I never funble with my gear and just worry about focusing and taking the shot.

 

Cheers,

 

Riccis

[Riccis]

I also must add that I as I saw the church lady I started to focus, so I was not that far off from nailing it once the bride appeared... Once again, my insticts play a big role in the way I shoot.

 

Riccis

[mwilliamsphotography]

I was wondering if I could get any tips on how I should "plan" on taking photo's of my friends wedding. Amateur stuff mind you - there will a professional photographer there.

 

I guess I also want to know also how you approach this professionally. I know you have to get the certain shots of the family and the usual stuff. From what I have seen the best wedding photographers are the best "directors" (Not that I have seen that many though) - getting people to line up or get into certain areas. Do you scout the place first? Do you have an idea of what shot you want to take beforehand?

 

Thanks for any advice.

 

Cheers,

SM.

 

SM, it might be a nice thing for your friend if you concentrated on the unexpected images that the Pro won't be able to get while busy doing certain expected shots. Don't go there thinking you can out-do the Pro and get shots you think he missed. Even if you could, all it does is rob him/her of print sales to make a living.

 

I've attended many weddings as a guest, and sometimes take a M with me, sometimes not. But I never take anything away from the hired photographer. When I shoot, I tend to shoot for myself. Interesting human moments and the like. Things that most likely wouldn't be purchased as print or album sales.

 

The first upload below is an example. That's the Pro loading her MF camera on the left ... but the two bottles of beer being hidden behind the tree added a subtile level of humor.

 

Also attached are a few of my professional wedding shots done with M cameras. I shoot mostly candid work, and never visit the venue beforehand. I select what images go to the client and what goes in their album. I do some posed work, and understand that they are part of a family's history, so I don't kiss them off.

 

While I use many different cameras, all of them were informed by my experiences with an M camera and the rangefinder style of thinking ... which is the one constant in years of shooting.

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[Singlemalt]

fotografz,

 

Yep - I have no intention to do the same shots as the pro. There is no way that I have the ability to do a better shot and there is no point. I am trying to get different shots - a different perspective. The shots are for me and my friends.

 

I will talk to the pro when I'm there - mainly to make sure I don't get in his way, but secretly more in the hope he/she may actually critique some of my shots and give me advice on how to be better.

 

I need to practise focusing faster - it is coming to me but I sometimes miss things because im not fast enough. It is hard for me to be quick at 1.4 - If i shoot slower it should be easier. I will take advantage of zone focusing too.

 

Thanks again for everyone's advice. I find it amazing that a noob like me can get on to a forum and get some real insights into what a pro does and the different philosophies to taking photographs.

[mwilliamsphotography]

Here's a tip for quick focus with a manual lens ... especially rangefinder lenses that have a short throw.

 

After doing a shot, rack the focus ring back to infinity. That way you will get into the habit of always moving it one way rather than hunting back and forth. Plus, most shots are just a short movement from infinity (look at the distance markings on the barrel and you'll see that they get closer together to closer they are to the infinity mark).

 

Because the rangefinder focusing patch is in the center of the frame, when shooting with a f/1.4 lens closer to the subject, you should learn to slightly shift your body rather than repointing the camera when reframing off-center subjects.

 

Good luck.

[Riccis]

SM - I will be more than happy to provide you feedback with your shots... Just post them here and ask anything that's on your mind. Fotografz's tips are very useful, try to remember them.

 

Have fun!

 

Riccis

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Hallo,

Look here: Leica M

[Singlemalt]

After doing a shot, rack the focus ring back to infinity. That way you will get into the habit of always moving it one way rather than hunting back and forth. Plus, most shots are just a short movement from infinity (look at the distance markings on the barrel and you'll see that they get closer together to closer they are to the infinity mark).

Good luck.

 

Awesome... it seems so obvious - I don't know why I didn't know that.

 

Thank you.

 

SM.