Lens Haze

[lars_bergquist]

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Is there anyone who can tell me what lens haze is, what causes it, and if it is remediable?

 

I perused an auction catalog (LP Foto, March this year) and it struck me that a high proportion of the lenses offered were hazy. I did some quick statistics, with an amazing result: Of 64 M lenses,15 were hazy, making nearly one in four! The next find was equally unexpected: Out of 26 R lenses, none was hazy! And in the rest of the catalog, with a total of 629 lots of which a large majority was or included lenses or other optics, there was NOT ONE other hazy lens.

 

I went to to previous (December) catalog. Here, fully one third of the M lenses were hazy. The rest of the catalog contained one other hazy lens - a 135mm for a Nikon S.

 

Now what can cause such a phenomenon? What did they do in Wetzlar that they didn't do in other places, except possibly Tokyo? And what the Devil did they do to M lenses that they did not do to R lenses? - There is one possible explanation: M lenses are the only ones that are saleable even when hazy ... but can that be the full explanation?

 

Remains the initial question. Is lens haze a substance which settles on the lens, a decomposition of the coating or the surface, or a devitrification of the glass itself? Why does it so often affect only some of the elements in a lens? Any hard facts are welcome.

 

The old man from the Age of Crown and Flint Glass

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[Ivar B]

Most M lenses are much older than the R lenses, and probably Leica used glass or other material at the time which made the lenses subject to fogging or haze.

 

However, as you point out there is a special problem with the M lenses. I have seen lenses from the 80s even which were completely destroyed, but maybe due to poor storing conditions or something.

[dennersten]

if you want to have a look how it turns out making photographies with a hazy lens. Look at these pictures:

 

Leica II

 

Quite cool sometimes, but very unpredictible, so i played a little with that Elmar in the beginning, but now never.

[lars_bergquist]

It is an interesting fact that haze afflicts not only lenses with advanced post-war rare-earth-based glasses, but also classical crown-and-flint glass lenses like the 3.5 Elmar (the 2.8 used lanthanum glass) and the 9cm Elmar, in some cases uncoated lenses from the 1930's. So the whole thing is a complete mystery to me.

 

I can understand that Leica Camera are reticent about the phenomenon, but surely there must be some people who know? And who are present on this forum?

 

The Hazy Old Man

[lars_bergquist]

I talked to an experienced camera mechanic today. He said that the haze was a layer of extremely fine particles from the air that settled on lens surfaces that had not been adequately cleaned during the manufacturing process. Today of course Leica cleans its lens elements by ultrasound both before and after the coating, so late lenses should be safe. So, the layer can be removed without any damage to the glass or even the coating, but the disassembly and reassembly of old Leica lenses can be demanding operations. A really competent optical expert can probably do the job. It will cost money, but may be worthwhile if the lens is in very good shape otherwise, optically and mechanically, or is rare.

 

I have heard good things about Camera Repairs & Restoration, Luton, England (leica.luton@virgin.net) and Optical Instruments (Balham) Ltd (info@optil.ca.uk) but cannot vouch for them by experience.

 

The old man from the Age of Meniscus Lenses

[brianv]

I've cleaned a number of hazy lenses, including 1950's Summicrons, a 1948 5cm f2 Collapsible Nikkor, Zeiss Sonnars, and a number of Canon LTM lenses. Most of the haze was on the surface on each side of the aperture blades. The cause was lubricants from the helical working their way in thrrough the aperture coupling and depositing vapor on the elements. The Canon lubricants seemed most caustic- I had one 50mm F1.2 that damaged the hard coating, and have seen them etch the glass. The 1948 Nikkor was almost opaque, and the lens was quite inexpensive because of it. It cleaned up 100% and took 10 minutes for the job.

 

I picked up a Rigid Summicron with haze, also at a good price. It cleaned up quite well, but required suction cups to get the elements out.

[lars_bergquist]

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Yes, that was what the camera mechanic told me too - most of the goo is on the lens surfaces around the iris diaphragm. Well, this is good to hear. What I hear about the disassembly of rigid Summicrons does also agree with what other people have told me. They had little old Feinmechaniker with rubber hammers in Wetzlar in those days!

 

The old man from the Age of Berek

[wizard]

Just one word of caution: With older Leica lenses, say before 1955 or so, you risk loosing the coating when trying to remove the haze. That is because the coating used on the inner lens elements at that time was a soft coating. Lenses above 2,000,000 are safe, lenses under about 1,500,000 are internally soft coated, and with lenses in between these numbers some are internally soft coated, others not. Unfortunately, there is no documentation telling us which lens is safe from which serial number upwards.

 

Andy

[lars_bergquist]

Thanks for the warning.

 

The old man from the Age of Tweed Overcoatings