sdai Posted February 1, 2008 Share #21 Posted February 1, 2008 Advertisement (gone after registration) Give me a break, Peter ... you could also say that auto transmission is a must in a 200k luxury car. LOL Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted February 1, 2008 Posted February 1, 2008 Hi sdai, Take a look here R10 and Full-Frame Sensor. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
jlancasterd Posted February 1, 2008 Share #22 Posted February 1, 2008 Give me a break, Peter ... you could also say that auto transmission is a must in a 200k luxury car. LOL Ye Gods, NO! - I dislike auto transmission almost as much as I do auto-zoom and auto focus... I really do hope that we are not to be treated to an R10 with masses of unnecessary automation and hi-tech gismos. A body with a full-frame sensor that is an amalgamation of the R9 and DMR would suit me just fine. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
andybarton Posted February 1, 2008 Share #23 Posted February 1, 2008 John If you had to sit in traffic like I do, you'd quickly change your mind about an auto-box Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ho_co Posted February 1, 2008 Share #24 Posted February 1, 2008 You wouldn't need to clean the sensor if the mirror were fixed. It would be sealed in the shutter box. Oops! Andy, don't spoil my speculation with logic! The selling point would be that we never need to clean the sensor, and that it doesn't need to have a wobble-mount dust-removal system because dust never never gets there to begin with. ... if I remember it correctly, the light loss is about 2/3 stops... That's about the same as the Pellix' light loss as I recall. With today's glasses and coatings, that could presumably be greatly reduced. In regard to Live View, I agree with Peter. Today it's one of the must-have features if a camera is to be seen as professional-grade or up-to-date. --HC Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sdai Posted February 1, 2008 Share #25 Posted February 1, 2008 In regard to Live View, I agree with Peter. Today it's one of the must-have features if a camera is to be seen as professional-grade or up-to-date. Well, then Leica should leave it as an upgrade option ... bundled with quieter shutter, sapphire glass, black dots, gaffer tapes etc. I'm sure lots of folks will go for it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjh Posted February 1, 2008 Share #26 Posted February 1, 2008 You wouldn't need to clean the sensor if the mirror were fixed. It would be sealed in the shutter box. Given that a good deal of the stuff that ends up on the sensor was inside the camera to begin with, that wouldn’t help at all. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woody Campbell Posted February 1, 2008 Share #27 Posted February 1, 2008 Advertisement (gone after registration) Live view? What, like P&S's have? Again, I sincerely hope not! The thought might be on a mirror which is sliver when current is passed through it, and clear when the current is switched off (or vice-versa) And now we have worry about dust and scratches on the mirror instead of the sensor ... and it can't be too fragile. On a second thought, now the mirror can effectively serve as the cover glass of the sensor and it's certainly easier to wipe the mirror than to dust off the sensor. I actually owned a Canon Pellix. There's a good reason why the Pellix was discontinued and why no other manufacturer has used the technology: terrible inernal reflections. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
andybarton Posted February 1, 2008 Share #28 Posted February 1, 2008 A 2009 pellicle mirror would be completely different from a 1980s pellicle mirror. Have faith. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
usayit Posted February 2, 2008 Share #29 Posted February 2, 2008 John If you had to sit in traffic like I do, you'd quickly change your mind about an auto-box I live and commute in one of the busiest areas in the nation (US)... I'll still never drive a auto or slush box. Depends what you want in a car... couch on wheels or something you drive (and control). In fact, that is the number one reason why I have a hard time finding a domestic vehicle... not that I don't like them... just that very few come with a nice responsive stick. I personally think that the ol'Mirror slapper design is obsolete for digital SLRs. I think there are better implementations out there... a pellix mirror (assuming improved since the Canon Pellix was out) + the high - ISO low noise sensors of today can easily make it a possiblity. Its application could very well make into camera models specific to sports photographers that need high fps and live view. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ho_co Posted February 2, 2008 Share #30 Posted February 2, 2008 I actually owned a Canon Pellix. There's a good reason why the Pellix was discontinued and why no other manufacturer has used the technology: terrible inernal reflections. Gasp! I never knew of anyone who owned one! Dimmer finder plus internal reflections as well, eh? Might I say I find a certain parallel in the performance of the M8? A 2009 pellicle mirror would be completely different from a 1980s pellicle mirror. Certainly true, unless Leica could get a deal on them from Canon, whatsay? --HC Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jlancasterd Posted February 2, 2008 Share #31 Posted February 2, 2008 I live and commute in one of the busiest areas in the nation (US)... I'll still never drive a auto or slush box. Depends what you want in a car... couch on wheels or something you drive (and control). My view exactly! I've driven in traffic-swamped cities in West Africa, Pakistan and South East Asia and I've never regretted having a manual box. My current car is a 5-on-the-floor diesel and (if it ever wears out) the next will be the same but with 6 gears. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
carstenw Posted February 2, 2008 Share #32 Posted February 2, 2008 My view exactly! I've driven in traffic-swamped cities in West Africa, Pakistan and South East Asia and I've never regretted having a manual box. My current car is a 5-on-the-floor diesel and (if it ever wears out) the next will be the same but with 6 gears. A-ha! Feature creep! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
andybarton Posted February 2, 2008 Share #33 Posted February 2, 2008 My view exactly! I've driven in traffic-swamped cities in West Africa, Pakistan and South East Asia and I've never regretted having a manual box. My current car is a 5-on-the-floor diesel and (if it ever wears out) the next will be the same but with 6 gears. The thought of wearing out a clutch every 6 months doesn't fill me with joy. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jlancasterd Posted February 2, 2008 Share #34 Posted February 2, 2008 The thought of wearing out a clutch every 6 months doesn't fill me with joy. 75,000 miles so far without replacing the clutch... I can't actually remember replacing all that many clutches during my driving career, although I always took a spare when going out to some of the 'wilder and woollier' places where I was posted. In most places it was tyres, shock absorbers and suspension that tended to wear out. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
adan Posted February 3, 2008 Share #35 Posted February 3, 2008 I'm just glad the carmakers have not yet figured out (as Leica has) that some of us will pay more to AVOID automatic stuff! Four Hondas, 27 years, 280,000 miles, ONE new clutch. On the original question - Leica will stick with Kodak, I'm sure. Established relationship, Kodak is willing to design to spec for Leica's needs, and the last thing Leica needs is a "me-too" off-the-shelf sensor shared with the D3x, Sony P100 (or whatever their pro full-framer will be called), and Pentax K50D (or whatever THEIR full-framer will be called). Kodak has some slick technology up their sleeve, such as mixing monochrome pixels in with the Bayer-colored pixels to increase sensitivity (patented, BTW). Leica will get first crack at that while the other guys play footsie with Sony. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ptomsu Posted February 3, 2008 Share #36 Posted February 3, 2008 I'm just glad the carmakers have not yet figured out (as Leica has) that some of us will pay more to AVOID automatic stuff! Four Hondas, 27 years, 280,000 miles, ONE new clutch. On the original question - Leica will stick with Kodak, I'm sure. Established relationship, Kodak is willing to design to spec for Leica's needs, and the last thing Leica needs is a "me-too" off-the-shelf sensor shared with the D3x, Sony P100 (or whatever their pro full-framer will be called), and Pentax K50D (or whatever THEIR full-framer will be called). Kodak has some slick technology up their sleeve, such as mixing monochrome pixels in with the Bayer-colored pixels to increase sensitivity (patented, BTW). Leica will get first crack at that while the other guys play footsie with Sony. Well, there is some hope to get these cool Kodak things! I am excited about the possibilities to swim outside of mainstream with Leica. I do hope they are taking the right choices in putting their products together. But is the susseed at least 70-80% then this will become exceptional Just came back from a photo trip with M8 and my WATE and FW 1.2 - results are astonishing! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mitchell Posted February 3, 2008 Share #37 Posted February 3, 2008 44 years doing lots of driving with a stick, never replaced a clutch. Best, MItchell Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
giordano Posted February 3, 2008 Share #38 Posted February 3, 2008 Clutch and manual shift is compromise forced by 19th century technology and after nearly 120 years we ought to aspire to better. Speaking for myself, after learning to drive with a crash gearbox and then driving 4x4s and trucks with 8, 10 or 16 gears I wouldn't mind if I never had to press another clutch pedal. I want an automatic for stop-start driving but prefer a manual for hard driving. Next weekend I'll own what I hope is the ideal compromise: a VW with the "EGS" slushless six-speed auto (no torque converter or fluid flywheel and full manual control too). Unfortunately it has two clutches to wear out. Must remember not to leave it in D at the traffic lights! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
andybarton Posted February 3, 2008 Share #39 Posted February 3, 2008 Four Hondas, 27 years, 280,000 miles, ONE new clutch. That's 10,000 miles per year. That would take me roughly three months, if not a little less I have a friend with a 320i. He's got a journey to work which is nearly all stop-start traffic. He's got 20,000 on the clock, and is on his third clutch. Obviously, if you do 50,000 a year on the motorway, clutches and brakes last forever, but not in the sort of driving that I have to do every working day. Similarly, if you live in a rural environment and aren't stuck in traffic. See below for my kind of driving... http://www.l-camera-forum.com/leica-forum/landscape-travel/43406-joys-open-road.html BMW Tiptronic auto boxes with the option to change gear manually are superb. I'm now into my 225,000+ mile using one (one had 150,000, this one has 75,000+ on it) and they have both been a joy to use. Auto when you want it, manual when you want more control. Really the best of both worlds, apart from the fuel consumption hit. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
stunsworth Posted February 3, 2008 Share #40 Posted February 3, 2008 I agree about the motorway Andy, I drove to London and back every week for about 4 years, plus long drives abroad, so I reckon I did at least 100,000 miles in that time in my clapped out BMW 520. The only clutch problem I had was with the master cylinder. The clutch itself was still working fine when I dumped the car, and since I bought it used I don't know how many miles it had done when I bought it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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