DonQuijote Posted January 20, 2008 Share #1 Posted January 20, 2008 Advertisement (gone after registration) Hi, I wanted to see how my LEICA D SUMMILUX 25mm/F1.4 ASPH would perform in not quite low light but in poorer light and involving some reflective surfaces (metal, water, glass). Sports & Leisure Time - LEICA D SUMMILUX & Reflections of the Past Part I http://www.l-camera-forum.com/leica-forum/sports-leisure-time/43712-leica-d-summilux-reflections-past-part.html Sports & Leisure Time - LEICA D SUMMILUX & Reflections of the Past Part II http://www.l-camera-forum.com/leica-forum/sports-leisure-time/43714-leica-d-summilux-reflections-past-part.html Regards, Michael Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted January 20, 2008 Posted January 20, 2008 Hi DonQuijote, Take a look here LEICA D SUMMILUX 25mm/F1.4 ASPH more example shots . I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
goodbokeh Posted January 21, 2008 Share #2 Posted January 21, 2008 Hi Michael A very nice set of photos, those grill shots are wicked sharp! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ptomsu Posted January 21, 2008 Share #3 Posted January 21, 2008 Nice shots! Although I found that my 1,4/25 very soft at 1,4-2,8 and then getting slowly the contrast and sharpness you are expecting. It also did not focus correctly on my E-3, aperture wide open and low light. This was finally one of the reasons I sold my whole 4/3 equipment. Take a simple 1,4/50 Nikkor on a D3 and you are getting far superior results Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
goodbokeh Posted January 21, 2008 Share #4 Posted January 21, 2008 Nice shots! Although I found that my 1,4/25 very soft at 1,4-2,8 and then getting slowly the contrast and sharpness you are expecting. It also did not focus correctly on my E-3, aperture wide open and low light. This was finally one of the reasons I sold my whole 4/3 equipment. Take a simple 1,4/50 Nikkor on a D3 and you are getting far superior results Gosh Doctor, that is not my experience at all with the 25mm Summilux! Like the best of modern Leica ASPH lenses, it is very sharp wide open at f/1.4 and focuses in low light quite well with my Digilux 3. Does the E3 have a AF assist light in the body, like the Digilux 3/Lumix L1 has? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
DonQuijote Posted January 21, 2008 Author Share #5 Posted January 21, 2008 Nice shots! Although I found that my 1,4/25 very soft at 1,4-2,8 and then getting slowly the contrast and sharpness you are expecting. It also did not focus correctly on my E-3, aperture wide open and low light. This was finally one of the reasons I sold my whole 4/3 equipment. Take a simple 1,4/50 Nikkor on a D3 and you are getting far superior results Hi Peter, I think this was an issue with the E3, however what is disappointing the lack of inter-brand compatibility within the 4/3 range of products. For example the Olympus EX25 extenson tube and teleconverter TC20 do not work with the Summilux. I have ordered both and I am switching to Olympus glass (for Macro and long Tele) due to the wider range of product offerings. I am keeping all Leica lenses and may buy more in the future. What would be nice if Panasonic, Olympus, Leica would work together each contributing their best skills and expertise to bring out a complete range of products quickly. Nikkor lenses are not designed for Digital Camera unlike the 4/3rd lenses, which of course are superior to old film lenses. Remember the E3 also had issues focusing with the OlympusTeleconverter TC/EC20 - until a software patch was released. The bottom line is the Summilux D 25mm f/1.4 ASPH lens is a sharp lens! If you have any doubts please look at these owner testimonials taken from the B&H Photo & Video web site (B&H Photo Video | Digital Cameras, Camcorders) when searching for the lens and clicking on reviews: Very Nice, October 18, 2007 Reviewer Mike Lucio from Pennsylvania Expertise: Professional 29 of 42 people found the following review helpful. Review: This lens is big and heavy, mainly due to telecentric/digital design coupled with F1.4, but a great asset to the four-thirds system. Stellar performer, even wide open, with quiet AF motor and excellent build quality. Quite possibly, the best "normal" F1.4 lens currently available for a DSLR system. Previous equivalent item owned: Canon EF 50mm 1.4, OM Zuiko 50mm/F1.4, Pentax Takumar SMC 50mm F1.4 The best 50mm equivalent lens, September 26, 2007 Reviewer Ricardo Villagran from Mexico Expertise: Professional 22 of 35 people found the following review helpful. Review: Simply the best 50mm equivalent lens on the market. As other reviewers already said is an excellent performer, big, heavy but worth every penny... Far better than my beloved Nikon 50mm 1.4 in every aspect. Previous equivalent item owned: Nikon 50mm 1.4, Voigtlander 35mm 1.7, Leica 50mm f2 Wonderful, August 25, 2007 Reviewer Andy from Patterson 48 of 69 people found the following review helpful. Review: After moving completely to Olympus, I missed having a fast 50 (25). Ordered this one here and absolutely love it. Excellent color, sharpness, contrast. Very quiet focusing. Nice hood included, easier to mount than any Olympus lens. Lens cap can be removed with hood in place, same release type as I've seen on some Nikkors. Olympus, please change your lens cap releases. Problems I encountered with this item:Aperture ring has no effect on my E510. Haven't tried it on my E1 yet. Previous equivalent item owned: Canon 50mm F/1.4 FD, Nikon 50mm F/1.8 Big but beautiful, August 28, 2007 Reviewer Bas Scheffers from Adelaide, Australia Expertise: Experienced amateur 44 of 64 people found the following review helpful. Review: There is only one downside to this lens: it's big. Slightly bigger than the 14-54/2.8-3.5 lens, in fact. It is almost as if Leica took a 25/1.4 design from their R series and wrapped AF around it. The good news is that it truly is a stunning lens; very, very sharp wide open with no vignetting to speak of and even better performance stopped down a bit. Bokeh is very smooth. AF is fast, quiet and accurate and the build feels rock solid with lots of metal on the outside. I would have preferred a smaller lens to satisfy my 50/1.4 craving and maybe also a slightly cheaper one. That said, I am glad I have it now. There is an aperture ring on this, but as far as I can tell it only works on Panasonic and Leica cameras, not on my E-1 or another reviewers E-510. That means you simply leave it on the "A" setting and adjust aperture with the wheel on your camera body. Previous equivalent item owned:Canon EF 50/1.4, Olympus Zuiko 50/1.4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ptomsu Posted January 21, 2008 Share #6 Posted January 21, 2008 I have all the great ASPH glass for the M8 and I am sorry to say - the 1,4/25 does not at all come close. And what is more disappointing - it does not really work great on the E-3, because of the focusing issues and the E-3 does only have the built in flash as AF light - strobo flash - very useful for available light shots On the Digilux3 it did focus well, but again - wide open it is very soft - just compare it to a 1,4/35ASPH or a 1,4/50ASPH on the M8 and then you know what I mean Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ptomsu Posted January 21, 2008 Share #7 Posted January 21, 2008 Advertisement (gone after registration) Nikkor lenses are not designed for Digital Camera unlike the 4/3rd lenses, This is maybe true for older Nikkor glass, but try to find something like the new Nikkor lenses just released for the D3 FF - there is nothing, absolutely nothing comparable on the market to these. And they by far outperform Oly and Leica glass for 4/3. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rosuna Posted January 21, 2008 Share #8 Posted January 21, 2008 This is maybe true for older Nikkor glass, but try to find something like the new Nikkor lenses just released for the D3 FF - there is nothing, absolutely nothing comparable on the market to these. And they by far outperform Oly and Leica glass for 4/3. Well, I am not sure about that: DSLR Magazine - Dos Zuikos a prueba DSLR Magazine - Nikon D3: a prueba All tests are made on the same print size, so lenses and systems' resolution are comparable. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
marlof Posted January 21, 2008 Share #9 Posted January 21, 2008 Although I found that my 1,4/25 very soft at 1,4-2,8 and then getting slowly the contrast and sharpness you are expecting. It also did not focus correctly on my E-3, aperture wide open and low light. As I stated in a previous response to an earlier message by you on this subject, this is not my experience at all. My copy of the 25/1.4 is sharp wide open, and has no issues with focusing on my E-3 body (or on the E-1). And as I told you earlier: add a flash to your E-3, and use the red focus assist light from that flash, and you're all set. I agree though: it's too bad the E-3 doesn't include the same flash assist as the E-1. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ptomsu Posted January 21, 2008 Share #10 Posted January 21, 2008 As I stated in a previous response to an earlier message by you on this subject, this is not my experience at all. My copy of the 25/1.4 is sharp wide open, and has no issues with focusing on my E-3 body (or on the E-1). And as I told you earlier: add a flash to your E-3, and use the red focus assist light from that flash, and you're all set. I agree though: it's too bad the E-3 doesn't include the same flash assist as the E-1. Well, then you are one of the happy guys! Mine did not work so well. And the solution with the external flash as AF light - come on, this is really not what I need if I want to go for AV photography. BTW - do you know the quality from 1,4/35ASPH and 1,4/50ASPH M glass, aperture wide open? If so and you say that the 1,4/25 aperture wide open is same quality, then there is for sure something wrong. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ptomsu Posted January 21, 2008 Share #11 Posted January 21, 2008 Well, I am not sure about that: DSLR Magazine - Dos Zuikos a prueba DSLR Magazine - Nikon D3: a prueba All tests are made on the same print size, so lenses and systems' resolution are comparable. Test charts - yes? I am not comparing lenses anymore by testcharts, but by the way I can use them for serious photography. The 12-60 is a very sharp lens, indeed, but it is not so fine in terms of vignetting wide open as well as it is terrible in general compared to the old 14-55 at the WA end. BTW - I had (have) both of them. And you also can be lucky, if your E-3 does focus right. Mine did NOT. Under several conditions. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
spylaw4 Posted January 22, 2008 Share #12 Posted January 22, 2008 I'm sorry to say that I too disagree with you Peter. I have found that the 25/1.4 on the L1 is a very sharp excellent lens and just as Michael has stated. I am however worried by your assertion regarding your results on the E-3 which if repeatable does not perhaps bode well for any D4, but then maybe as it's Leica and their stamp on the lens as opposed to Oly - who can tell? Another wait and see situation. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
DonQuijote Posted January 23, 2008 Author Share #13 Posted January 23, 2008 I have all the great ASPH glass for the M8 and I am sorry to say - the 1,4/25 does not at all come close. And what is more disappointing - it does not really work great on the E-3, because of the focusing issues and the E-3 does only have the built in flash as AF light - strobo flash - very useful for available light shots On the Digilux3 it did focus well, but again - wide open it is very soft - just compare it to a 1,4/35ASPH or a 1,4/50ASPH on the M8 and then you know what I mean Hi Peter, I think it is important for people to share their experiences. Product reviews and tests are the only way to establish a products physical performance characteristics and the only way to fairly and consistently evaluate performance and back it up by performance data. Personal experiences are important - the usability characteristics and the emotive/personal insights that others can relate to and these should not be undervalued. However, the latter are subjective and should be qualified as such and not be confused with fact. Especially when it is obvious that ones experience is not aligned with the experience of the majority of users (hey, they are all driving in the wrong direction ). You raised a valid point though - M8 lenses will no doubt out-perform D3-level lenses purely because we are not comparing apples with apples. You cannot compare a standard Mercedes C-class coupe (still a nice car = D3) with a Mercedes SLR AMG modified (M8 3-times or more the cost of the D3) - more money most often will buy you a better quality product (up to a point, gold coating does not help ). The best product will not always result in the best photos as the technical skills, artistic vain, photographic talent, experience and motivation all come together at the time of pressing the shutter release button. I sincerely hope that the 4/3 standard will continue to evolve and be the standard for digital photography. There is a Scientific Test Report by Anders Unschold Digitaltechnik, Munich,Germany - the topic is 'Current capabilities of digital cameras and the comparison of the classical architecture of digital cameras based on 35 mm SLR-systems and a digital optimized architecture'. I don't have the link anymore but it is very interesting reading. Best of luck with the direction you have chosen re. chosen standard, but I for my part will stick to 4/3rds and hope that Leica & Olympus will continue to release quality DSLR products. My 5 cents worth. Regards, Michael Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ptomsu Posted January 23, 2008 Share #14 Posted January 23, 2008 Well, of course these are your opinions, and if the results work or you, then all is fine. I myself am comparing the 4/3 to DMR, Nikon D3 and D2X and M8. And I have practical experience, since I have all these cameras (at least had them for some time). And mos result showed me better IQ than compared to 4/3. One of the killing arguments of FT is the digitally optimized lenses. This is a marketing argument, because one can simply prove that with M8 and absolutely no digital optimization of lenses you can achieve far better results. And same is true for DMR and Nikon (and think Canon as well) Issue is that there are a bunch of real bad lenses around from lot of vendors, and you should not compare these. But taking the top lenses from either brand, they are at least as good as Olympus. The big advantage for Nikon and Canon comes today with their FF sensors. This is 4 times the size of the FT sensor and it is obvious, that one will never be able to achieve the same results with FT as with the FF sensors. There will always be the question if you need these advantages or if you prefer the advantages of FT, which are there! But in the end of the day and after several personal trials I am no more convinced of the big success of FT and the openness - because for me this openness proved not to work Anyway, have fun and good luck with your decisions Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
leicagator Posted January 23, 2008 Share #15 Posted January 23, 2008 I totally agree with you ,Michael. In addition, I think that many people nowadays buy cameras just due to the specification sheet in order to always own the technically newest gadget (which are of course "better"). However, they do not take enough time any more to get used to their cameras or to work with them and to improve their abilities together with the camera thereafter. Of course many times they get frustrated by the results of "the camera" and already begin to look for newer and - of course again - "better" cameras... Personally, I always need a lot of time with my cameras before finally judging them. And I have learned to differentiate between certain species in this Forum and their respective "advice". Having said that, after 6 months of use, my Digilux 3 draws photos together with the 25/1.4lens that I enjoy very much: Sharp and with a nice tonality. So far, I have no complaints. Just to be clear: I am not saying that the above described is not all right - it is fine and many camera producers love these guys. It is just not my approach. I am selecting a camera very carefully and when I have chosen a camera (for quite a while) I have the ambition to work with it (for fun) and to improve... my OPINION, so long, Stefan Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ptomsu Posted January 23, 2008 Share #16 Posted January 23, 2008 I totally agree with you ,Michael. In addition, I think that many people nowadays buy cameras just due to the specification sheet in order to always own the technically newest gadget (which are of course "better"). However, they do not take enough time any more to get used to their cameras or to work with them and to improve their abilities together with the camera thereafter. Of course many times they get frustrated by the results of "the camera" and already begin to look for newer and - of course again - "better" cameras... Personally, I always need a lot of time with my cameras before finally judging them. And I have learned to differentiate between certain species in this Forum and their respective "advice". Having said that, after 6 months of use, my Digilux 3 draws photos together with the 25/1.4lens that I enjoy very much: Sharp and with a nice tonality. So far, I have no complaints. Just to be clear: I am not saying that the above described is not all right - it is fine and many camera producers love these guys. It is just not my approach. I am selecting a camera very carefully and when I have chosen a camera (for quite a while) I have the ambition to work with it (for fun) and to improve... my OPINION, so long, Stefan Well, I had choosen the E-3 very carefully - as you describe. This was a log way evaluating all pros and cons, and finally the decision was for the FT system and the E3 and Oly / Leica / Pana lenses. Unfortunately my E3 had an AF issue from day 1, especially not working with the 1,4/25 under available light, for what I had bought this lens. What would you do in such a case? I had more than 1000 test shots, no support over 5 weeks from Leica / Pana / Oly and finally this was the death for my FT system. Feel great that you were lucky with the equipment you got. I obviously was not. And BTW - I do know how to work with modern cameras, these were not my 1st ones Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lordkacy Posted January 26, 2008 Share #17 Posted January 26, 2008 hmm... it seems like e3 combine with 25mm f.14 is having a bit of problem... I recently purchase these two combination found out that as long as i keep the image stabilizer off the sharpness is there... here are some of my shot... KC Eng Photography under the section poked! or can visit here LFI Gallery - poked! the image is process under the olympus software direct without tweaking. Some how that software give more vibrant colors..... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
goodbokeh Posted January 26, 2008 Share #18 Posted January 26, 2008 hmm... it seems like e3 combine with 25mm f.14 is having a bit of problem... I recently purchase these two combination found out that as long as i keep the image stabilizer off the sharpness is there... here are some of my shot... KC Eng Photography under the section poked! or can visit here LFI Gallery - poked! the image is process under the olympus software direct without tweaking. Some how that software give more vibrant colors..... That's interesting, so the VR on the E3 sensor may need a bit more light than exists in the dimness where the Summilux can operate. I have not heard about this same problem with the E510. This VR issue might be a good candidate for a future E3 firmware upgrade. On a somewhat related note, the VR in the sensor sounds like such a great thing but I wonder if over time will it will shake itself out of alignment with the focal plane? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mym6is12 Posted January 26, 2008 Share #19 Posted January 26, 2008 That's interesting, so the VR on the E3 sensor may need a bit more light than exists in the dimness where the Summilux can operate. I'm fairly sure the VR is accelerometer based - so would work just as well in absolute darkness. My 25 f/1.4 certainly seems adequately sharp with IS1 on, and accurate to focus even at close range. The 150 f/2 is also pin sharp with the IS on. I tend keep the AF sensor on the central spot, with the sensitivity to small - just to ensure the camera is focusing exactly where I want it to. Example is ISO 800 ( no noise reduction ) 1/50s f/1.4 IS1 on. and 100% crop : Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
goodbokeh Posted January 27, 2008 Share #20 Posted January 27, 2008 Well, that is a slow shutter speed for a little kid eating food but your E3/25 Summilux photo looks great! I wonder what the issue(s) is with the other two E3 owners? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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