Petapixel on the SL3s

[Photoworks]

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[Elliot Harper]

this guy has become more and more obnoxious since he left dpreview

Edited yesterday at 03:57 AM by Elliot Harper

[LD_50]

Summary: There are other camera with more features for less money.

There's literally nothing more here.

[Chris W]

It's just an opinion. It doesn't upset me.

I think for the style of camera people are better off with a Sony or Panasonic than a Leica SL. Which is all they are saying in the video.

They LOVE the M series and the Q series by the way.

[FrozenInTime]

The SL3-S has features that would have made it a great success two years ago; but the S1II is what the market expected.

[helged]

SL3-S' (rather) slow sensor readout speed is the largest problem for me, forcing one to use the mechanical shutter in cases when the electronic shutter would be the preferred option (eg with longer lenses to eliminate sensor movement). The continuous AF could also be better, but I can live with that.

[FrozenInTime]

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There is now a rumour of a SL based on a down-spec'd S1RII; which might achieve 1/50s sensor readout.

https://leicarumors.com/2025/12/08/new-leica-sl-camera-model-based-on-the-panasonic-s1rii-rumored-to-be-announced-next-year.aspx/

 

[costa43]

They are somewhat correct, it's an old sensor, AF is still behind the competition and there are cameras out there that are way ahead for less money. R6 III, Sony A7 V for instance.

I would still prefer to use an SL camera for everyday photography though, the IP54 rated weather sealing and the general build quality are re-assuring, the feel and the simple UI are more important to me than the fastest AF or latest video codecs. Having access to the L mount with the APO lenses and Sigma options is another tick. 

[helged]

23 minutes ago, FrozenInTime said:

There is now a rumour of a SL based on a down-spec'd S1RII; which might achieve 1/50s sensor readout.

https://leicarumors.com/2025/12/08/new-leica-sl-camera-model-based-on-the-panasonic-s1rii-rumored-to-be-announced-next-year.aspx/

 

+1 (or should I say +0.5...): Sensor readout speed of 12-ish ms or less would be good; 20 ms is on the slow side for e.g. birds in flight. Clearly, this depends on the eyes that see, in this case my eyes...

Based on photographing small birds at a distance of 4-5 m and with a 200+mm lens, the electronic shutter on Canon R5 (16 ms) can be used without too much smearing of wings etc, whereas the readout speed on Canon R3 of 5 ms is comparable to the speed of a mechanical shutter, so no problem there.

For comparison, Leica SL2 has a readout speed of 38 ms and SL3 of about 50 ms (havn't seen any 'exact' value for SL3, but the readout speed is certainly slow); so the electronic shutter is pretty much limited for quasi-static subjects. Lumix S1ii - which currently is the camera with fastest readout speed in the L-mount system (*) - of 14 ms is in the ok-ish landscape. SL3-S and SL3 definitely not.

(*): By please correct me if I am wrong...

Edited 19 hours ago by helged

[LocalHero1953]

It has been said for some time that the IQ of most modern digital cameras and lenses is 'good enough' for most purposes. Perhaps we should say the same about AF? And a lot of the extra functions that other brands offer? Leica's real challenge might come from a brand that makes a camera as simplified as the Leica and cheaper. The excellent user interface of a Leica may come from Leica's experienced i/f designers, but costs little to implement. The build quality should be easy to achieve with modern CNC and automated manufacturing techniques: perhaps too expensive for Leica's small production, but cheap when spread across large scale production. Perhaps an opportunity for LLL or the like?

[helged]

10 minutes ago, LocalHero1953 said:

It has been said for some time that the IQ of most modern digital cameras and lenses is 'good enough' for most purposes. Perhaps we should say the same about AF? And a lot of the extra functions that other brands offer? Leica's real challenge might come from a brand that makes a camera as simplified as the Leica and cheaper. The excellent user interface of a Leica may come from Leica's experienced i/f designers, but costs little to implement. The build quality should be easy to achieve with modern CNC and automated manufacturing techniques: perhaps too expensive for Leica's small production, but cheap when spread across large scale production. Perhaps an opportunity for LLL or the like?

The 'good' thing for the L-mount is that there is still some improvements to be made before entering the realm of diminishing returns; notably regarding AFc, tracking and sensor readout speed. It will come, but it is a little dissapointing that the newest generation of Leica and Lumix-bodies (SL3x and S1Rx/S1x) aren't fully there, yet. 

[LocalHero1953]

Just now, helged said:

The 'good' thing for the L-mount is that there is still some improvements to be made before entering the realm of diminishing returns; notably regarding AFc, tracking and sensor readout speed. It will come, but it is a little dissapointing that the newest generation of Leica and Lumix-bodies (SL3x and S1Rx/S1x) aren't fully there, yet. 

I appear to be an outlier here. I actually find AF OK, which is why I suggested it may have reached a plateau.
I shoot moving people, often in groups, using iAF, which switches automatically between AFc and AFs.

Clearly YMMV.

[helged]

1 hour ago, LocalHero1953 said:

I appear to be an outlier here. I actually find AF OK, which is why I suggested it may have reached a plateau.
I shoot moving people, often in groups, using iAF, which switches automatically between AFc and AFs.

Clearly YMMV.

AFs/AFc for moving people works fine, one could even say great. But add some speed and/or randomness to the movement, and SL3x are so-so.

Edited 17 hours ago by helged

[FrozenInTime]

46 minutes ago, helged said:

+1 (or should I say +0.5...): Sensor readout speed of 12-ish ms or less would be good; 20 ms is on the slow side for e.g. birds in flight. Clearly, this depends on the eyes that see, in this case my eyes...

Based on photographing small birds at a distance of 4-5 m and with a 200+mm lens, the electronic shutter on Canon R5 (16 ms) can be used without too much smearing of wings etc, whereas the readout speed on Canon R3 of 5 ms is comparable to the speed of a mechanical shutter, so no problem there.

For comparison, Leica SL2 has a readout speed of 38 ms and SL3 of about 50 ms (havn't seen any 'exact' value for SL3, but the readout speed is certainly slow); so the electronic shutter is pretty much limited for quasi-static subjects. Lumix S1ii - which currently is the camera with fastest readout speed in the L-mount system (*) - of 14 ms is in the ok-ish landscape. SL3-S and SL3 definitely not.

(*): By please correct me if I am wrong...

I expect Leica would also eventually roll out a SL4-S based on the S1 II, with semi-stacked sensor ~18ms readout speed.

[harbelot]

3 minutes ago, FrozenInTime said:

I expect Leica would also eventually roll out a SL4-S based on the S1 II, with semi-stacked sensor ~18ms readout speed.

I think we can expect something like this :

 

https://leicarumors.com/2025/12/08/new-leica-sl-camera-model-based-on-the-panasonic-s1rii-rumored-to-be-announced-next-year.aspx/

Not sure how I feel about this..

[Chris W]

I find the SL2-S AF to be slow and also hunt in low contrast situations.

I actually don't use AF that much, being mostly an M user. I love the files out of my SL2-S though.

In the video they talk about eye detect, IBIS etc and all of these things are at least as good, often better, in a much cheaper camera body than the SL3-S.

[LocalHero1953]

1 hour ago, helged said:

AFs/AFc for moving people works fine, one could even say great. But add some speed and/or randomness to the movement, and SL3x are so-so.

I still don't have a problem. Dancers? Good enough. Drama crowd scenes? Good enough.

Improvement is always possible, but, IMO, we have reached a plateau (or a slope with a gentle gradient) in such tech.

[Photoworks]

1 hour ago, helged said:

+1 (or should I say +0.5...): Sensor readout speed of 12-ish ms or less would be good; 20 ms is on the slow side for e.g. birds in flight. Clearly, this depends on the eyes that see, in this case my eyes...

Based on photographing small birds at a distance of 4-5 m and with a 200+mm lens, the electronic shutter on Canon R5 (16 ms) can be used without too much smearing of wings etc, whereas the readout speed on Canon R3 of 5 ms is comparable to the speed of a mechanical shutter, so no problem there.

For comparison, Leica SL2 has a readout speed of 38 ms and SL3 of about 50 ms (havn't seen any 'exact' value for SL3, but the readout speed is certainly slow); so the electronic shutter is pretty much limited for quasi-static subjects. Lumix S1ii - which currently is the camera with fastest readout speed in the L-mount system (*) - of 14 ms is in the ok-ish landscape. SL3-S and SL3 definitely not.

(*): By please correct me if I am wrong...

I have both SL3 and S1RII, I think the SIRII has a quite slow readout speed, especially when the dynamic range is extended, the rolling shutter is quite noticeable. Blackout time sis till longer on SL3

The little Panasonic camera is excellent, I still like photography better on the leica, video on the Pana. 
The S1RII sensor, which is the same from the Ronin 4D, is very good, use it at high iso more than the SL3.

If Leica uses the S1RII sensor, what I would find strange would bring Leica to a current state, not the future. And then it has to deal with heat, because the sensor produces 8K or 44MP images, and the processor runs overtime.

S1II has a faster readout speed, but it processes only 24MP. i would not think it is much of an improvement.

[Photoworks]

4 minutes ago, LocalHero1953 said:

I still don't have a problem. Dancers? Good enough. Drama crowd scenes? Good enough.

Improvement is always possible, but, IMO, we have reached a plateau (or a slope with a gentle gradient) in such tech.

I would think you are dealing with High ISO setting but light on a subject. I was opera and ballet photographer for many years.
I find myself shooting events and the room lights are dim, but the people are more in the dark. In these cases the AF is terrible even on SL3. Using flash the AF red light is necessary, but it works only with the center AF field. Leica does not have a locked center AF, which is another problem.

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Hallo,

Look here: Leica L-Mount

[LocalHero1953]

2 minutes ago, Photoworks said:

I would think you are dealing with High ISO setting but light on a subject. I was opera and ballet photographer for many years.
I find myself shooting events and the room lights are dim, but the people are more in the dark. In these cases the AF is terrible even on SL3. Using flash the AF red light is necessary, but it works only with the center AF field. Leica does not have a locked center AF, which is another problem.

Hmm - my rehearsal spaces can be pretty dimly lit.

Certainly shooting in the dark with flash would be a challenge for AF. You write that Leica does not have a locked centre AF: do you not use Field or Spot? It's not locked as such, but doesn't move unless you move it yourself. Or are you looking for locked Body/Face AF?