Moving on from M?

[chris_tribble]

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An admission.  Since I got the Q3 43, the only cameras I've used have been the Q and an SL2 system (2 bodies / 24-90 / 90-280 + 75 AP)).  My M10-R + 28 & 35 Summicron asphs + a VC 90 Apo have languished in a cupboard. Generally speaking, if I've not used something for 6 months and I can't see a situation (professional or personal) where I'd chose to use it, I have to question whether I should hold on to it.  I'm not a great camera fondler - and certainly not a collector.  

At the moment, the Q3 43 is proving to be an ideal companion camera, and the SL2s do the job on professional projects.  I've also arrived at a point in life where I'm not going to be getting on a plane to Bihar to document village education systems with a bag of high iso film Fuji slide film and an M6 + 28 /35 / 90. So, what to do?  I've been positively surprised by how well the re-sale price of the M10-R has held up (just black chrome - not BP, and negatively surprised by the low value of the M Summicrons - but there would be enough to get a Q3 Monochrome.  The rationale here is that this would open up a completely different way of working (particularly for landscape and architecture) and offer me a chance to explore an alternative aesthetic.

No longer having an M will be very strange (I learned to take photos with my father's Leica IIIc), and got my first M6 40 years ago.  However, I also never envisaged back then how digital would impact everything and how good EVFs could become and how useful image stabilisation and AF are. 

I'd be interested to hear any experiences others have had if they've already made the jump, or, if you're juggling with the same issues as me at the moment, what you think the options might be.   

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[vdeneke]

Hi Chris, I visited Uganda and South Corea with SL3-S and Q43, I missed the feeling of manual focussing with the rangefinder. I´m glad to stiil have my M10-r for "meditation" 😉 during taking photos.

Cheers,

Volker

[irenedp]

No. The Ms, and a Q2, are my light equipment. I usually prefer to carry the Ms (9P, 10r) for work. 
as heavier equipment I use a Phase One IQ4 back and an S3 as a backup. 
The Leica SL falls in between, I guess. Not my type of choice. Neither would I use a Q for work instead of the Ms. I love using them. The Q is a backup. 
 

I reckon that everyone gets to love some equipment and disregard other. There are rational pros and cons to each choice but I don’t think those are the ultimate driver of why we prefer or love something 

[Olaf_ZG]

After selling my last M, the m10m, I missed the monochrom experience, so in the end I did rebought a M (m9m). As you still have a m6, you can always fall back on the m- feeling if you want. A set of q’s is not a bad thing to use.

[pgk]

2 hours ago, chris_tribble said:

I'd be interested to hear any experiences others have had if they've already made the jump, or, if you're juggling with the same issues as me at the moment, what you think the options might be.   

I have owned Ms for the best pat of 45 years. At the moment my carry around camera (all the time) is my M9 & 35/1.4 which has taken many photos I like. I also have Sony EVF and Nikon dSLR cameras and lenses too. I'm not about to ditch the M9, but I do understand the issues and have, and still do, consider the options if and when I decide the time has come to move away from rangefinders (the M-EV1 holds absolutely no attraction for me). I've hummed and ha'd over a monochrome camera for some time but then again I quite enjoy converting colour images (especially when 'seen' in B&W) and have no hang ups about doing so which means that I've never actually moved in that direction and it would be expensive to do so and probably is simply not worth it to me. 

So the options left are considerable. But little really appeals to me or would really significantly improve the possibilities for taking photos that I already have. For a relatively minimal spend I can buy a few more used Nikon dSLR lenses, which I have no doubt will produce excellent images, and this is a route I may actually go down. The thought of buying new lenses with the marginal improvements they offer does not appeal, and I have already sold some Sony lenses off and may sell more. Sony lenses are great but some don't really work as well for me as their specification suggests they should, despite being great performers. Their ergonomics are a bit hit and miss for me and already models some are being replaced which suggests that they are regarded as needing updating. So the options are tricky. I will wait until I am at a point when I know my Ms will not get so much use and then decide so perhaps you will document your solution here because it may prove useful!

[chris_tribble]

3 hours ago, irenedp said:

 reckon that everyone gets to love some equipment and disregard other. There are rational pros and cons to each choice but I don’t think those are the ultimate driver of why we prefer or love something 

Ah, those emotions!  Thanks for the thoughtful responses @vdeneke, @irenedp, @Olaf_ZG, @pgk.  still mulling.  It’s possible that in general terms I’ve got all the cameras I need, but that doesn’t stop me from wanting to explore other possibilities!

😎

[PhotoCruiser]

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It is my personal policy to sell expensive things only if i buy something considerable better or i need to to sell for financial reasons what fortunately rarely happens.
But i have to learn to sell things i don't use or use too less to justify to have them as they cost me money (cars, rv vehicles, motorcycles) or just occupy space i could need (also for buying something new with the money i raised with selling).

So i would say:
a) keep it and use the camera every now and then or just enjoy looking at it.
b) sell it and buy something else and better what you can make better use of.

Chris
 

 

[Alexander108]

I started diving into the Leica World with a Q3 2y ago. I was extremely pleased with the experience. Yet for my photography the 28mm lens was often too narrow. I also carried my heavy Canon R5 equipment for landscape photography with me. I was always looking for a capable compact full-frame camera. 

A friend of mine introduced me to his new M11 and I was blown away. Small, yet super capable lenses, combined with a great body. 

I then sold all my Canon equipment, plus the Q3 to buy a pre-owned M10-M plus a few lenses. An M11 followed. I am super happy with this equipment. 

Yes, I miss the tilting screen and the OIS of the Q3. But my freedom of choice with lenses and a different approach to photography justified the switch for me personally. 

But this is my very personal approach. 

[Jeff S]

I’m cutting back on M gear after about 40 years of continuous use. My rarely used M10-R BP is currently for sale, and my M(9)M will likely follow, leaving me with an M10M and 4 lenses.  The SL2 and 24-90 is my workhorse lately, only recently adding the 28-70 for a more compact alternative. 
 

But circumstances change, and tech evolves, so none of this is locked in stone. Leica has shown that they are willing to change and experiment, too, so maybe a future M will appeal.

[geoffreyg]

The very tricky ground of changing preferences - in part as we get older. Faced with ever-improving technology, does one update continuously, or return to more familiar practices? 

My current thoughts (!) are a slight retreat to the familiar - M10R, with M10M for that extra range and truly artful travel size camera. Have eschewed the Q series (not liking 28, wondering if 43 is too narrow, and IMHO a bit big for small travel camera). Likely to give up the CL - having liked the standard zoom, don't feel a need these days. The 55-135 zoom is unused. With a bit of courage, the CL will go, largely due to limited high ISO. Feel pretty comfortable with the M, having used one for many years before. Just falls to hand. 

There is some tech camera gear but that's another story. 

Edited November 25 by geoffreyg

[Le Chef]

Conversely, I am still dithering about entering messucherwelt. I have only had one afternoon's worth of time to experience using a rangefinder (M10) but managed to produce this:

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Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members!

Edited Tuesday at 04:12 PM by Le Chef

[chris_tribble]

Isn’t it difficult!  There's no doubt that a combination of M + SL has served me very well.  Galleries like these tell the story.

M10-R + SL2 from a year ago: https://www.ctribble.co.uk/galleries/PERSONAL/Autumn_Winter_2023/

M10 only: https://www.ctribble.co.uk/galleries/PERSONAL/Poland_June_2023/

But then came the Q3-43: https://www.ctribble.co.uk/galleries/PERSONAL/Autumn Light_Silverdale_2025/ - still possible to go ultra wide (by cropping or stitching), but also to get close detail the M doesn’t allow, and (for me), great for travel: https://www.ctribble.co.uk/galleries/PERSONAL/Samos_late_summer/.

The lesson so far?  I’ve not found a situation recently where the Q3-43 stopped me from doing what I wanted, and in many cases it enabled new possibilities.  
So I’m still working out what to do!

Edited Wednesday at 07:52 AM by chris_tribble

[LocalHero1953]

I suspect I have a similar shooting practice to you, @chris_tribble, and I reached the same decision point by a different route some years ago. With just a M240, I was attracted to the TL2 as a joy camera; finding it technically unsatisfactory (no EVF, slow LCD/visoflex), I jumped on the CL when it was launched. The potential of the L-mount led me to add the SL (full frame AF). After a while the M240 was sitting unused: the CL system was used for travel and social and the SL for growing work in theatre/performance. I found the M10 unsatisfactory as an upgrade (no silent shutter, no video), so sold the M system entirely. I replaced the CL system with the Q2 (now Q3-43), and that's where I am now.

I haven't missed the M - as a digital camera - and if it hadn't been for covid that might be where I remained. With all that time on my hands I started exploring film again, initially through large format, but, to cut the story short, I now have a M4, MP and three Barnacks (with lenses in the 28-75mm range). These scratch a different itch entirely: I enjoy the craft of taking, home-developing and editing film, but I am totally frustrated by my inability to make images that I consider satisfactory - but that's another story!

Edited Wednesday at 08:48 AM by LocalHero1953

[chris_tribble]

@LocalHero1953 Paul. That’s interesting!  A bit of me feels that the M was the best instrument of choice for certain kinds of reportage, and let me work in settings and circumstances where nothing else would have done.  Images here were with M8 and 28 + 90: https://www.ctribble.co.uk/galleries/PERFORMANCE/MathaisEick/index.html, and these would have been M9 and 28 + 50: https://www.ctribble.co.uk/galleries/THEATRE/KH_Trainspotting/index.html .  These days I’d use a Q for discrete work or SL with 24-90.

 

[LocalHero1953]

17 minutes ago, chris_tribble said:

@LocalHero1953 Paul. That’s interesting!  A bit of me feels that the M was the best instrument of choice for certain kinds of reportage, and let me work in settings and circumstances where nothing else would have done.  Images here were with M8 and 28 + 90: https://www.ctribble.co.uk/galleries/PERFORMANCE/MathaisEick/index.html, and these would have been M9 and 28 + 50: https://www.ctribble.co.uk/galleries/THEATRE/KH_Trainspotting/index.html .  These days I’d use a Q for discrete work or SL with 24-90.

 

If I remember my thought processes at the time correctly, I reckoned that the M was ideal as a single camera for most of what I wanted to photograph, but once I accepted I could live with more than one camera, the CL/Q and SL were better tools for their specific uses. The M just got squeezed out in the middle.

(and I love those photos you link to!)

Edited Wednesday at 10:30 AM by LocalHero1953

[chris_tribble]

The one thing I know I'll miss is the M + 135 APO.  I only used it occasionally, but when it worked it was magic.  This project would have been M9 + 28. 35. 50 and 135.  https://www.ctribble.co.uk/galleries/SOCDOC/India_EL_Bihar_2/index.html.  This was the kind of work where being able to travel light but still shoot wide or long meant the M was invaluable.  Nowadays this kind of commission has pretty well dried up for me (especially with the cruel cut backs the British Council has suffered from), and a pair of Qs + a bit of foot work would let me cover 28 to 90 with plenty enough resolution for my purposes (and the lens on the Q3-43 is a little marvel!).
This one was a favourite:

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I think I'm moving to a Q3 + Q3-43 - and not bothering with the niche Monochrome version as I am very confident with my capacity to process good B&W from DNGs,

Again - thanks to those who have taken the bother to reply so constructively!

 

Edited Wednesday at 11:11 AM by chris_tribble

[pgk]

2 minutes ago, chris_tribble said:

This project would have been M9 + 28. 35. 50 and 135.

I am being tempted to look into the concept of one camera and versatile zoom lens - just to try it to see if I can operate happily with such a set-up despite its obvious drawbacks. In today's market there are plenty of relatively cheap options which would fulfil this for a full-frame caera and I'm not wedded to make nor even camera type. I'm more interested in usability these days.

[LocalHero1953]

1 hour ago, chris_tribble said:

and not bothering with the niche Monochrome version as I am very confident with my capacity to process good B&W from DNGs,

I have recently been photographing the development of a (silent) play based on a silent movie ('Nosferatu'), and set my camera to monochrome JPG (while still shooting raw). Shooting with a monochrome EVF is a great experience if a B&W image is the ultimate objective, even if the raw file has the full spectrum. It's a sort of half way house, for experimenting, without buying a Monochrom.

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[chris_tribble]

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[BWColor]

I have sold off most of my Canon gear and some Sony, with more to go. It occurred to me that I hadn’t shot film in fifteen years and had a dozen cameras sitting in the safe.  I thought that I would shoot each one prior to selling.  This was right before I decided to upgrade my X2D to the X2D2.  As a result of shooting film again, I’ve become hooked and rather than sell my X2D, it now serves to copy film.  I have decided to sell some film cameras, but haven’t done so yet.  So, take your M10 out exclusively for a time.  If it doesn’t resonate with you then sell it.  For me, I always thought that what camera that I used was key to getting the shots that I wanted, but now I understand that I shoot for the sake of enjoying the shooting experience and surprisingly, I discovered that I really enjoy the experience of shooting film.