SL2-S to SL3-S or SL3: what differences would I notice?

[LocalHero1953]

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I'm a long time SL2-S user (and SL before that), and I'm mulling over trading it in for a SL3 or SL3-S.
I use the SL2-S a lot for theatre, music & dance, for which it's excellent. I quite often take shots from a low angle - sometimes floor level - for which a tilt screen would be handy; the tilt screen would also be useful for the occasional video (recorded on a tripod). Although I don't feel limited by resolution, a few extra pixels would be good for extreme cropping.

For those who have gone from the SL2-S to either of the SL3 versions, what would I notice most about the later model?

And for those who have used both SL3 and SL3-S, what do they find are the real world noticeable differences between them. A new SL3 is a lot more expensive than the SL3-S; is that just because of the different sensor? Is it worth it for the sensor alone?

This isn't a done deal; it may be just a result of a streaming cold and the prospect of cheering myself up with a bit of GAS.

[leica_kh]

I recently upgraded from SL2-S to the SL3-S. Signifiicant upgrades for me are these: the autofocus, the articulating screen and the wifi acquisition.

The autofocus is just fast and better. There's less hunting and it feels snappy. Even in lower light. The phase detection is a significant improvement. 

The articulating screen was a under-rated update. I never thought I cared for it but I found myself shooting at different angles and not having a screen that articulated on the SL2-S had me miss some images and angles I saw but couldn't fully execute. 

The SL3-S also has the improved wifi acquisition probably via Maestro IV and that's a nice update too. I don't use it often but when I did use it on the SL2-S, it was slow and sometimes finnicky. The SL3-S is much faster to connect the Leica FOTO app and the downloads are significantly faster. 

I have no regrets with the upgrade. 

[LocalHero1953]

Thanks, @leica_kh, just the sort of feedback I was looking for.

A couple of years ago I'd have sneered at anyone who wanted a tilt screen, but since getting the Q3 43 I've realised how useful it can be. I'm still flexible for my age, but it's a lot quicker to frame at floor level with a tilt screen than getting my eye aligned down there.

I don't have a need for wifi; it's good to hear about the improved AF though.

[FrozenInTime]

Don’t want to sound negative, but I doubt the SL3-S will remain in production for long:

• Not reaching even 4k 50fps without a crop made it DOA for cine applications.
• The loss of resolution on photo punch in puts it behind the SL2-S for manual focus.

Maybe the Lumix S1II with semi-stacked sensor, arguably how the SL3-S should have been equipped, would be a better investment in the short term.

[LocalHero1953]

8 minutes ago, FrozenInTime said:

Don’t want to sound negative, but I doubt the SL3-S will remain in production for long:

• Not reaching even 4k 50fps without a crop made it DOA for cine applications.
• The loss of resolution on photo punch in puts it behind the SL2-S for manual focus.

Maybe the Lumix S1II with semi-stacked sensor, arguably how the SL3-S should have been equipped, would be a better investment in the short term.

My video demands aren't high - 25fps are good enough for me! And I rarely use manual focus - really only the Summilux-M 75 - though I can see how irritating that would be.

[helged]

SL3: Very slow sensor read-out speed, so more of the images have to be taken with the mechanical shutter (SL2 sensor read-out speed is ~ 38 ms; SL3/M11 ~ 100 ms; https://horshack-dpreview.github.io/RollingShutter/). AF works only up to 4 fps; 5 fps with 12-bit files; higher fps without AF. Battery longevity is just so-so. No multi-shot. Animal detection still at 'beta' (rather embarrising).

SL3 on the plus-side: Much improved AF (notably cAF and tracking); articulated screen (big plus!); nice (for my eyes) sensor colour; less tendency for highlight clipping (big plus); deep shadows are quite ok (particularly if the contrast is turned a little down). Much reduced moire compared to SL2-S, presumably due to the higher resolution.

The reportedly slight drop (1/2-stop or so) in IBIS is something that I haven't noticed at all. IBIS is good.

Personally, I very much liked SL2-S; not so much SL3-S, but SL3 is the top model based on my use. Presently I use SL2...

[Jeff S]

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I own the SL2 and only briefly handled an SL3. I prefer the ergonomics/grip of the SL2 as well as its simple on/off button, menu icons and shutter action.  Totally personal initial reaction; no extensive shooting or image comparisons.  I’m happy enough with the SL2, and doubt my pics/prints would improve with a change.  I am, however, considering either or both an SL 28-70 or Q3-43, as the 24-90 is my sole SL lens.

Edited 19 hours ago by Jeff S

[LBJ2]

No practical rationale needed...I decided to stick with the big sensor: SL2=>SL3. For me the Leica SL platform exists so I can continue to live the SL APO Prime dream 😎 E.g., I want to feed these extraordinary lenses with the most MPs available. 

For everything else, I rely upon the Sony Alpha system and its incredible performance chops. 

However as mentioned, the SL3 is now 19 months old and still Animal detection is in 'Beta' mode and unless I missed something there have been no tweaks/improvements to AF for the SL3 system either. 

[LocalHero1953]

Thanks to all who have commented.

A couple of questions:

• does the SL3-S have multishot? I use it for digitising large format negatives, so I would miss this.
• what's the sensor read-out speed of the SL3-S?

I agree the animal AF in beta is embarrassing, but I don't normally shoot animals.

[LBJ2]

19 minutes ago, LocalHero1953 said:

Thanks to all who have commented.

A couple of questions:

• does the SL3-S have multishot? I use it for digitising large format negatives, so I would miss this.
• what's the sensor read-out speed of the SL3-S?

I agree the animal AF in beta is embarrassing, but I don't normally shoot animals.

"does the SL3-S have multishot?"

Yes

"what's the sensor read-out speed of the SL3-S?"

I don't know if this has been tested/published anywhere yet. 

EDIT: Google AI responded with: "The Leica SL3-S camera has a sensor readout speed of 21 ms" ( I'm trying to find the source of this figure so may not be accurate) 

Edited 18 hours ago by LBJ2

[LBJ2]

Jono Slack in his SL3-S review described: "The Readout speed of the SL3-S is half that of the SL3, reducing rolling shutter considerably and increasing the AFC speed to 30 frames per second (with the electronic shutter), Of course it also dramatically improves the video performance." But I can;t find that he listed a specific figure

 

 

[jonoslack]

6 minutes ago, LBJ2 said:

Jono Slack in his SL3-S review described: "The Readout speed of the SL3-S is half that of the SL3, reducing rolling shutter considerably and increasing the AFC speed to 30 frames per second (with the electronic shutter), Of course it also dramatically improves the video performance." But I can;t find that he listed a specific figure

 

 

I don’t think I did post a specific figure, but I was given it! Finding where is more complicated, but I’m pretty certain it was half that of the SL3

[helged]

38 minutes ago, LocalHero1953 said:

Thanks to all who have commented.

A couple of questions:

• does the SL3-S have multishot? I use it for digitising large format negatives, so I would miss this.
• what's the sensor read-out speed of the SL3-S?

I agree the animal AF in beta is embarrassing, but I don't normally shoot animals.

Re SL3-S read-out speed, somewhere 21-25 ms apparently (too slow for me; sub 10 ms is generally fine).

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Edited 17 hours ago by helged

[LBJ2]

11 minutes ago, helged said:

Re SL3-S read-out speed, somewhere 21-25 ms apparently (too slow for me; sub 10 ms is generally fine).

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Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members!

Excellent. I didn't know about this data from Leica until now. Have you found the same Leica provided video spec sheet w. sensor readout in ms for SL3? If so where? 

Edited 17 hours ago by LBJ2

[LD_50]

 

[LocalHero1953]

Thank you @LD_50 - I followed that thread closely - very informative and helpful!

[helged]

17 minutes ago, LBJ2 said:

Excellent. I didn't know about this data from Leica until now. Have you found the same Leica provided video spec sheet w. sensor readout in ms for SL3? If so where? 

Unfortunately, I havn't seen (and I do not find) similar type of overview table for SL3. Would think that the SL3 read-out speeds are 'hidden' somewhere - rather than explicitly given to the YouTube-influencer's doom and gloom postings...

[LBJ2]

13 minutes ago, helged said:

Unfortunately, I havn't seen (and I do not find) similar type of overview table for SL3. Would think that the SL3 read-out speeds are 'hidden' somewhere - rather than explicitly given to the YouTube-influencer's doom and gloom postings...

Thank you. I couldn't' find anything similar to the SL3-S Leica published video spec/readout speed for the SL3 either. Too bad because many people discussing sensor scan/readout speed on a regular basis. I do however appreciate Leica published this official data for the SL3-S. 

I have the device to test the SL3 sensor scan speed as I did for the M11 and SL2, just have to get it done and send to the horshack project. My guess is similar to the M11. But would be great to have the official data from Leica. 

https://horshack-dpreview.github.io/RollingShutter/

Edited 17 hours ago by LBJ2

[Elliot Harper]

I came from SL2-S to SL3-S.

The most significantly noticeable difference is the size. I prefer the smaller SL3-S. Ergonomics is better, especially those buttons on the right side of the LCD. Though the top left dial is useless and silly.

Other than that, people say AF is better, I don't know and I never feel that. Half of the time I shoot M lenses in manual.

People say video is better, I never shoot video.

People say menu system is better, I don't care. I rarely fidget with menu.

And I don't care about flip screen (it's never flipped out by me anyway).

If it were not for a good price, I wouldn't upgrade.

Edited 13 hours ago by Elliot Harper

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[LeicaR10]

LocalHero1953,  I agree with Helged's post #6.   I swapped my SL2 and SL2-S for a SL3 and SL3-S thinking the improved AF speed, more MPs and menu functionality would be better for me.  I found that was not the case.  My genres of photography are landscapes and occasionally, people.  I found both SL3 cameras were more complicated in function and did not find the MP increase of value for my photography.  I simply went back to what works best for me; the SL2 and SL2-S.  The SL2 is used with SL lenses as I found the MPs were enough for me.  Less complicated menu functions, simply and reliably delivers.  The SL2-S sensor delivers with the M lenses with IMO, superb color that needs very little PP, not to mention it does quite well in low light conditions.  Others who have moved to the SL3 and SL3-S, could well be pleased with their gear.  As I have known for 50 years with Leica systems, sometimes, new and improved is not what is needed; rather mastering the gear at hand, composition and light often creates stunning results.  At the end of the day, creating photographs that render what I visualize, is all that I need.  Just my experience.   r/ Mark

Edited 11 hours ago by LeicaR10