Considering a Monochrom Body - Looking for advice

[Dazzajl]

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16 hours ago, tegel said:

The question I have is how much of an improvement will I see compared to the monochrome images I get from my Zf

In all probability, none at all. The differences between shooting on a Monocrom and converting from colour are subjective much more than quantifiable. 

I think a lot of people go into a Mono camera with an idea that it's closer to when they shot film and used B&W. The reality is that aside from the M9M, the mono cameras are even more digital in the look and workability of the files than colour ones are. It's the experience of shooting in Mono that sets the cameras apart much more than the results. 

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[tegel]

59 minutes ago, mpauliks said:

Did you take a look at the Cobalt emulations for monochrom Ms? My first digital Leica was M 246. Today I would emulate it. But this is only me. There are differences of course. https://www.cobalt-image.com/?v=5f02f0889301

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Interesting. I was not aware of these. Certainly something to consider. Thanks for sharing!

[espelt]

vor 15 Minuten schrieb tegel:

I do also love the looks of an all black camera

As for the look and feel of the camera: Trust me, you'll love it...

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[espelt]

But I also like the results

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[Olaf_ZG]

I had the m9m, upgraded to the m10m, but went back to the m9m in the end. The m10m saw in the dark, but I didn’t need that, and its files were supersmooth, whereas I preferred the more grainy files from the m9m.

I guess all monochroms are great cameras…

[kenf]

I’m a long time Nikon shooter (currently with a Z9 and Zf as my primaries) and personally love life with Monochrom Leicas. I’ve had a Q2M for a few years and recently added a M246 to the M-P240 (and M6) I’ve had for years.  I use my Zf primarily in monochrome mode in a similar way to what you describe.

I can’t recommend a M Monochrom enough. I use mine with and without a Visoflex, but get the most satisfaction treating it like any other M - 35mm Summicron and the optical viewfinder.  I’d love a M10M, but I don’t feel at all crippled by my M246 - you may want to consider looking at one.
 

 

[Jeff S]

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On 8/1/2025 at 10:28 AM, tegel said:

 I suppose I’ll never really know until I try one out.

This.

Especially, as you print, there are myriad variables involved at every stage of the shooting/editing/print/display workflow, the majority influenced by your own style, choices and decision making.  How boring photography would be if we each produced similar results using the same gear.  
 

Handling, controls, ergonomics, viewing systems, etc can only be assessed based on personal experience and preferences, not by charts or forum comments.
 

I’d own the M(9)M and M10M, along with other color based digital cameras. I can produce superb, or mediocre, results from each. None of my print audience knows or cares what gear was used. 

[Chuck Albertson]

Aside from all the technical mumbo-jumbo, don't lose sight of some more practical aspects, such as batteries and their chargers. New M8/M9 batteries are getting scarcer by the day, as are working models of their chargers. A newer M model may cost more now, but have better battery availability in the near future.

[Olaf_ZG]

1 hour ago, Chuck Albertson said:

Aside from all the technical mumbo-jumbo, don't lose sight of some more practical aspects, such as batteries and their chargers. New M8/M9 batteries are getting scarcer by the day, as are working models of their chargers. A newer M model may cost more now, but have better battery availability in the near future.

Mmmmm, maybe originals are scarce, there are plenty replacements available, new, for 1/10 of the price of an original.

[tegel]

Thanks for all the great advice and insight! As I’ve been reading the comments and thinking about it more, I’m leaning against getting a digital M body. Since I’ve never used a RF, I’m certainly not going to miss shooting with one. Plus the Zf is serving me well as an ILC and works great with the my current M-mount lenses (35/2, 50/2 and 90/2.8 VM). Instead, I’m considering a Q2m or maybe even a Q3 28 (I hear it holds its own with monochrome conversion). I’ll probably rent one or both first to see how it goes. I could see the Q playing the role of the take-everywhere-one-lens travel camera, which appeals to me for non-photocentric travel. For FLs <28mm and >50mm, I can always fall back on my Zf with Z-mount lenses if needed. I’m also experimenting with film again using a pair of FM2n bodies (one for B/W, one for color), trying to decide If I really want to give it a go again. If the film resurgence takes hold, I might consider a film M down the road to scratch the Leica RF itch. 

I really appreciate the knowledge of this group and have been enjoying reading through the different forums as I try to decide if a Leica will be in my future.

— Tom

 

[pgh]

hey neighbor, seems you've made up your mind, but if you're curious just shoot me a message - i will send you some .dng files from m10 monochromes so you can see.

conversions from my regular m10 make nice black and white pics, but the M10M files are fundamentally different. The M11 might be a little better but the M10M is so good that it covers such a wide range of poor underexposure (highlights are always something to be careful with in monochromes) that you really have to try to make the shadows fall apart. 

Camera Mall will let you hold and try their rangefinders in stock if you want to see how it feels. They're very helpful over there. Just my opinion but if you get a Q then happen to try a rangefinder later you're going to just keep wishing you'd gotten the rangefinder. Doesn't happen with everyone maybe but I'd bet more than not. 

[tegel]

3 hours ago, pgh said:

hey neighbor, seems you've made up your mind, but if you're curious just shoot me a message - i will send you some .dng files from m10 monochromes so you can see.

conversions from my regular m10 make nice black and white pics, but the M10M files are fundamentally different. The M11 might be a little better but the M10M is so good that it covers such a wide range of poor underexposure (highlights are always something to be careful with in monochromes) that you really have to try to make the shadows fall apart. 

Camera Mall will let you hold and try their rangefinders in stock if you want to see how it feels. They're very helpful over there. Just my opinion but if you get a Q then happen to try a rangefinder later you're going to just keep wishing you'd gotten the rangefinder. Doesn't happen with everyone maybe but I'd bet more than not. 

Thanks. That’s very generous! I found your email on your website. I’ll contact you that way. I haven’t completely made up my mind yet, just leaning towards the Q since I’ve never really used an RF. I know the Camera Mall folks quite well. They have an M11 that I’ve played with, so I kind of know how it works. They occasionally get a used M in, but they don’t last very long. I really need to rent an M so I can use it more extensively. 

[ramarren]

My advice is simple: don't get lost in the numbers and specs. Any/all of the Leica monochrome cameras are very good cameras and produce excellent results. A Q2M, an M246, an M10M ... et cetera ... all are good cameras.

Buy a monochrome camera because you want one, not because it is better or worse than rendering RGB into monochrome. A monochrome camera applies definitive constraints on your photography, and those constraints can either hinder you or spawn more creativity. 

My story: I wanted a monochrome when the first M9 based one came out, but I had an M9 and wasn't delighted with it. I tried to buy an M 246, had myself on a half dozen lists to purchase, and somehow one didn't surface for me ... I bought an SL 601 with that money. A few years later, after I retired and sold the SL, I tried a Pixii. I didn't keep the camera, but I really liked setting it to capture raw monochrom ... when my return refund arrived, I found my dealer friend had the last new M10 Monochrom he was going to get in stock. I bought it immediately, and I'm glad I did. It's exactly what I wanted, I use it a lot and enjoy the heck out of it; its photo output inspires me to shoot more. I intend to keep and use it for a long time to come. 

Of course I have other cameras too ... the M10-M is not my only camera. But it's the special one.

G

[Markey]

On 8/1/2025 at 2:53 PM, davysn said:

 It is unlikely that a person would have two monochrome cameras, so making a careful decision is the right thing to do. 

When you choose the M246, even if the M11M is better (a very personal and subjective judgment), your desire to switch won't be strong, unless you have so much money that you don't know what to do with it. 

I have the M246 and the M11. My experience is that I have used the M246 far more than the M11. So, I have no desire to switch from the M246.

That`s very interesting.

I have a 246 and love it but find myself wondering what additional benefits (in terms of image ) there may be from an M11 monochrome. .

[Chris W]

On 8/6/2025 at 2:49 AM, tegel said:

 I haven’t completely made up my mind yet, just leaning towards the Q since I’ve never really used an RF. 

A dedicated B&W camera is a niche purchase. I think the key decision on whether to go with a monochrome M or a Q is do you want to shoot primarily wide, 28mm.

For me it would be compromise too far. I'm contemplating a B&W M and one of the key factors is the ability to choose from a wide variety of different lenses.

[tegel]

So I decided to take the plunge on an M10m. I’ve only had it a short time, but I’m really liking it so far. There seems to be quite a bit of latitude in the files, but I’m working on getting the exposure right in camera. I’ve mostly been using manual exposure with Auto ISO and typically set the exp comp to anywhere from -0.3 to -1EV depending the scene. Sometimes even less if needed. I find the red/blue blinkies very helpful for making fine adjustments. 

Here’s a photo I took last night at a concert with my VM 90/2.8 (I’m liking the quiet shutter!). I was in the 4th row about 15ft away. It is slightly cropped with only a few minor adjustments in LR. 

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Edited August 24 by tegel
Typo

[ramarren]

On 8/1/2025 at 7:30 AM, Dazzajl said:

...

I think a lot of people go into a Mono camera with an idea that it's closer to when they shot film and used B&W. The reality is that aside from the M9M, the mono cameras are even more digital in the look and workability of the files than colour ones are. ...

Poppycock. Sorry, but that's just nonsense to me: i find nothing special about the M9M that makes it either more or less digital than any of the other M monochrome models. 

G

 

[Alexander108]

Although I am a bit late to the party, I'd like to share my experiences as well. This forum helped me a lot making up my mind and maybe someone else can use this opinion.

I bought an M10M, my first rangefinder / Messsucher camera a few weeks ago. I come from the Canon world 5D Mk IV, R, R5 and since I did more and more street photography I bought a Q3 in April last year. But I mainly shoot / convert to b&w. For the now I only own a 35mm Summicron f/2 lens. There was just not enough time to find a reasonable priced 24mm lens before we headed to Italy.

I am blown away of how much much better the 5y old M10M does compared to my Q3 in dynamic range, sharpness and lack of noise. Perfect for low light situations.

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I even took pictures with ISO 12500 (this one is ISO 4000 "only"). 

 

My shooting in Italy taught me that I desperately need a 24mm lens. I also bought the Visoflex 020 which is a bit disappointing from its resolution. On my Q3 I can check the sharpness of images in the viewfinder w/o my reading glasses. This does not work with the Visoflex as well. The resolution is just too limited. However, I now have it mounted all the time, mainly to check exposure and settings. Focusing is often done with the RF. As I am mainly a "fisher" this is very convenient. I also often use zone focusing and I now see that I learn to judge distances better and better. 

BTW both pictures were shot with zone focusing. The lower photo is one of 15 images I took in this crowded street until this happened. Perfect light, only one person, extremely long shadow. 10min later the light was gone.

I was concerned that there is no IBIS (OIS is not an option either) and I probably cannot shoot slower than 1/60s. But as I am not trembling and the camera has a substantial weight (inertia), I now nailed shots down to 1/12s. My verdict is: I just love this camera. 

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[Dazzajl]

11 hours ago, ramarren said:

Poppycock. Sorry, but that's just nonsense to me: i find nothing special about the M9M that makes it either more or less digital than any of the other M monochrome models. 

G

 

Poppycock is a great word that is not used enough anymore!

I think we could probably all agree that with each new generation of the M line, there is different look or rendering to the images. Whether we equate any part of that look with being more or less analog in nature is indeed subjective I guess. What looks more like an old school B&W to me, doesn't have to you.

[ramarren]

10 hours ago, Alexander108 said:

... I am blown away of how much much better the 5y old M10M does compared to my Q3 in dynamic range, sharpness and lack of noise. Perfect for low light situations. ... 

When the M9 Mono was announced I was intrigued, but I never really liked my M9 (standard model). And then its sensor became afflicted with the "corrosion" disease, I sent it to Leica, and Leica offered me the full retail trade value against a new M-P 240. I went for that, and found the M-P 240 to be a far superior camera. Then the M 246 Mono was announced, and I tried to buy one for most of a year ... none ever seemed to come available for me, and when the SL 601 came out, I switched my deposit to that and bought it instead. A few years later, my retirement and a few jugglings of gear later, the SL was gone, the other Ms were gone, I had a CL and enjoyed it, and the opportunity came up to buy the last NEW M10 Mono my dealer would ever receive. I bought it immediately. That was in April of 2022. 

And the M10 Monochrom is as good as it ever needs to get, for me. 

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[i][b]Loading Dock At Sunset - Santa Clara 2025[/b]
Leica M10 Monochrom + Heliar Classic 50mm f/1.5 VM
Green Filter
ISO 160 @ f/1.5 @ 1/3000[/i][/center]

That's SOOC, no edits but the frame and sizing. I've made a very similar photo of the same subject with my M4-2 and the same lens on film, and it looks virtually identical. 

G

Edited September 2 by ramarren
proper URL