A little humble pie

[S Maclean]

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Havent shot film since the 90's..... Got very used to DSLR photography and adapted well to the M system etc etc.

 

Finally got the M11 Monochrome, took it for a quick test.... I have a lot to learn. A lot.  It's not that the captures are bad.  Very very clean, Great...everything.  But I am used to see ahead of what I photograph and I ahve to say....I did not get it right.

I normally always have all my cameras on BW mode, easier to shoot like that, but there's definately a difference when you don't have the channels to play with.

Not complaining.....it will all come together and I'll be better for it, ut's more fun If I have to work a little.

[Jeff S]

I never have my camera (Monochrom or color-based camera) in B&W viewing mode.  Never happened when shooting B&W film; no different for me now. I want to experience the world around me the same whether I’ve got the camera to my eye or not.  The B&W mindset that comes from using a Monochrom (no distractions looking for potential color pics) is, for me, one of its greatest benefits (as long as one doesn’t use a color based camera for an extended period).  The effect resides in the brain, not the VF, and learning grows best IMO.  And yes, one learns to not rely on color channels in post, with the more limited option of using colored lens filters.

Edited June 18 by Jeff S

[S Maclean]

2 hours ago, Jeff S said:

I never have my camera (Monochrom or color-based camera) in B&W viewing mode.  Never happened when shooting B&W film; no different for me now. I want to experience the world around me the same whether I’ve got the camera to my eye or not.  The B&W mindset that comes from using a Monochrom (no distractions looking for potential color pics) is, for me, one of its greatest benefits (as long as one doesn’t use a color based camera for an extended period).  The effect resides in the brain, not the VF, and learning grows best IMO.  And yes, one learns to not rely on color channels in post, with the more limited option of using colored lens filters.

Yes, you’re right. The M system being a rangefinder system and all, that pretty much takes care of reality. But, if I ever use the EVf or screen I like the simplicity or b&w, less distracting.  Also, on a monochrome you have no choice, the screen and EVf are B&W

Edited June 18 by S Maclean

[Jeff S]

23 minutes ago, S Maclean said:

Yes, you’re right. The M system being a rangefinder system and all, that pretty much takes care of reality. But, if I ever use the EVf or screen I like the simplicity or b&w, less distracting.  Also, on a monochrome you have no choice, the screen and EVf are B&W

I only use RF on an M, and on an EVF- based camera always leave in color.  For me it’s not simpler to have EVF in B&W; it’s simpler to have the same view whether walking around or looking through the VF. Just like in film days, I want my brain  to interpret the scene, not my camera.  That’s what promotes a B&W mindset over time for me… no color distractions.

Edited June 18 by Jeff S

[S Maclean]

28 minutes ago, Jeff S said:

I only use RF on an M, and on an EVF- based camera always leave in color.  For me it’s not simpler to have EVF in B&W; it’s simpler to have the same view whether walking around or looking through the VF. Just like in film days, I want my brain  to interpret the scene, not my camera.  That’s what promotes a B&W mindset over time for me… no color distractions.

Yes, sorry, I muddle things up a bit. 
 

that said, I have BW profiles on both the Sl3 and the q , I think it’s because I end up converting to BW anyway most of the time anyway. That’s why I decided to get the monochrome 

i know what I want, and obviously I see on color, but it’s nice to see an image that fits or gets closer to my end goal. 
 

maybe you’re just ahead of me, or maybe you just process differently. I do get your point though.

 

[Jeff S]

I’ve shot B/W film since early 70’s, so “seeing” in monochrome is second nature.  I bought a Monochrom (M9M and M10M) to recreate that experience.  Although 95% is converted to B&W with my SL2 (intentionally when shooting), the experience isn’t as pure for me, as color pics are still possible. 

[ramarren]

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On 6/17/2025 at 2:18 PM, S Maclean said:

Havent shot film since the 90's..... Got very used to DSLR photography and adapted well to the M system etc etc.

 

Finally got the M11 Monochrome, took it for a quick test.... I have a lot to learn. A lot.  It's not that the captures are bad.  Very very clean, Great...everything.  But I am used to see ahead of what I photograph and I ahve to say....I did not get it right.

I normally always have all my cameras on BW mode, easier to shoot like that, but there's definately a difference when you don't have the channels to play with.

Not complaining.....it will all come together and I'll be better for it, ut's more fun If I have to work a little.

I've heard many people say that they find getting what they want with an M Monochrom took some practice. I dunno ... when I first got my M10 Mono I just set exposure based on what the meter recommended, applied my usual adjustments based on my past photography for when to tweak the setting, and got what I visualized. I think it's possible that the novelty of a B&W digital camera leads many to expect that it is more difficult and it gets "over-thunk".

One thing that I learned after doing some experimentation: I was finding that the tonal rendering of different colors with the M10-M was a little off from what I wanted (just like what happens with B&W film) so I spent some time experimenting with different filters. I've found that a medium green filter (about 1.5 to 2.5 stop factor) obtains the tonal separation for most subjects the way I like it, to the point that I often load the raw files into LR Classic and just export them as JPEGs for distribution and printing. This is presuming daylight exposures, not indoor lighting (different color temperature to the illumination...). Experiment with B&W filters a little and you might find similar things.

And just keep at it. 

I do use the Visoflex EVF with my M10-M (and M10-R) occasionally. Mostly when I'm using long lenses and/or doing tabletop work for more precision in focusing and a better view than the squinty little 135mm frame lines in the optical viewfinder.  

G

[S Maclean]

3 hours ago, ramarren said:

I've heard many people say that they find getting what they want with an M Monochrom took some practice. I dunno ... when I first got my M10 Mono I just set exposure based on what the meter recommended, applied my usual adjustments based on my past photography for when to tweak the setting, and got what I visualized. I think it's possible that the novelty of a B&W digital camera leads many to expect that it is more difficult and it gets "over-thunk".

One thing that I learned after doing some experimentation: I was finding that the tonal rendering of different colors with the M10-M was a little off from what I wanted (just like what happens with B&W film) so I spent some time experimenting with different filters. I've found that a medium green filter (about 1.5 to 2.5 stop factor) obtains the tonal separation for most subjects the way I like it, to the point that I often load the raw files into LR Classic and just export them as JPEGs for distribution and printing. This is presuming daylight exposures, not indoor lighting (different color temperature to the illumination...). Experiment with B&W filters a little and you might find similar things.

And just keep at it. 

I do use the Visoflex EVF with my M10-M (and M10-R) occasionally. Mostly when I'm using long lenses and/or doing tabletop work for more precision in focusing and a better view than the squinty little 135mm frame lines in the optical viewfinder.  

G

Thank you.  It was exactly that.  I was overthinking it. So much reading about under exposing by a lot (I'm used to -1/3 or -2/3 max) and then "building the file on Slver effx or whatever had me doing weird things.  Then i realizedd that the test shots where I did not think about it and just took what I saw where much better and needed very little doing.  I just had a long conversation with Jon Nicholson (https://www.jonnicholson.co.uk) about this and he co pletely agreed. Just take the damn picture as you would film, don't take the picture to build digitally. Control the camera, don't have the camera and technology control you etc etc).

On Filters I always used yellow on film, and seldom orange.  I think it may have been you on another thread that was talking about the benefits of green (apple green) which got me curious.  I'll eventualy try it, for now I have the standard B&W yellow and orange to use.  But I really need to get fully acquainted with the camera first before I start adding stuff.

Amazing files though, even bad pictures are very interesting to look at technically.

Thank you again for your response.

 

S

[DadDadDaddyo]

1 hour ago, S Maclean said:

Just take the damn picture as you would film, don't take the picture to build digitally. Control the camera, don't have the camera and technology control you etc etc

These are words of real wisdom...

[S Maclean]

32 minutes ago, DadDadDaddyo said:

These are words of real wisdom...

He’s a good photographer….. and man. He’s also my half brother on my dads side, which we found out a couple of years ago….. a good story there….

[S Maclean]

On 6/19/2025 at 3:07 PM, ramarren said:

I've heard many people say that they find getting what they want with an M Monochrom took some practice. I dunno ... when I first got my M10 Mono I just set exposure based on what the meter recommended, applied my usual adjustments based on my past photography for when to tweak the setting, and got what I visualized. I think it's possible that the novelty of a B&W digital camera leads many to expect that it is more difficult and it gets "over-thunk".

One thing that I learned after doing some experimentation: I was finding that the tonal rendering of different colors with the M10-M was a little off from what I wanted (just like what happens with B&W film) so I spent some time experimenting with different filters. I've found that a medium green filter (about 1.5 to 2.5 stop factor) obtains the tonal separation for most subjects the way I like it, to the point that I often load the raw files into LR Classic and just export them as JPEGs for distribution and printing. This is presuming daylight exposures, not indoor lighting (different color temperature to the illumination...). Experiment with B&W filters a little and you might find similar things.

And just keep at it. 

I do use the Visoflex EVF with my M10-M (and M10-R) occasionally. Mostly when I'm using long lenses and/or doing tabletop work for more precision in focusing and a better view than the squinty little 135mm frame lines in the optical viewfinder.  

G

 I tried a couple of green filters, an (apple) green/ellow, and two shades of darker green.  I can see using them for landscapes but it's a little harsh on the skins of people I shoot.  Children and very well complexed girls are ok, but if you have a blemish, freckles, dark spots or other natural skin issue the green seems to highlght it a little.  What am i missing?

 

[ramarren]

2 minutes ago, S Maclean said:

 I tried a couple of green filters, an (apple) green/ellow, and two shades of darker green.  I can see using them for landscapes but it's a little harsh on the skins of people I shoot.  Children and very well complexed girls are ok, but if you have a blemish, freckles, dark spots or other natural skin issue the green seems to highlght it a little.  What am i missing?

 

Missing? Nothing. You should always test and see what works for you. Green works for the majority of *my* subject matter, including some people work but not all. That's why I suggested one "... Experiment with B&W filters a little and you might find similar things."  'You might not' goes without saying. 

There's no definitive rule book which can articulate specifically what works for every individual's photographic work. That's why Photography is an art.

G