Leica quality: my rant

[ramarren]

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I don't see the point of these sorts of rants. 

I have owned Leica cameras since the 1970s, Hasselblads since the 1980s, and own/use both systems still today, with both film and digital bodies/backs. I've had only a very few minor problems with either. On the rare occasions when I did, the Leica USA and Hasselblad USA support services have both done a great job of taking care of me. 

Many of my photographer friends also have Hasselblad and Leica equipment, both new and old. I don't hear much ranting from them either. 

G

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[ramarren]

My not understanding the point of silly rants and "freedom of speech" have nothing to do with each other, Al Brown. If you find whining and whinging like a six year old therapeutical, go right ahead.

I still won't understand it, but that doesn't translate to "it should be banned" ... there are a lot of stupid things I don't understand. I'm just expressing my opinion, or do you consider that ought to be banned because it is in contradiction to your aberrant notions of Freedom of Speech?  

G

[pgh]

^ Ranting about ranting. I love it. 

Of course freedom of speech and ranting are related. Freedom of speech as a concept only matters when it comes to speech a person would rather not deal with - which is almost always something a listener will find unpleasant for one reason or another.

But, if we took the time to knock and clear out every perceived waste of internet time or space here the image threads would almost totally empty. 

One thing I’ll admit - ranting is not actually as therapeutic as some believe - not in any durable sense. It tends to reinforce negative cognitive biases. I’m experienced enough to find the evidence persuasive! 

Anyways, I’m a broken record here on Leica quality. It absolutely needs to be better for what they charge! Again, my story - 3 brand new digital Leicas in 10 years all with QC issues out of the box. That’s not even the dreaded m11 series. And of my 5 digital Leica bodies, 4 have made the journey back to New Jersey at least once, some multiple times. I’ve owned far more Nikon/Sony/Pentax/Olympus over the years - almost 20 years of professional work. Never sent one of those bodies in for repair. Not once! Only a Nikon lens one time. Ah well.  

Edited May 29 by pgh

[pippy]

12 hours ago, pgh said:

...ranting is not actually as therapeutic as some believe - not in any durable sense. It tends to reinforce negative cognitive biases...

Thank you for making this statement.

Philip.

[ramarren]

Hmm. I take it, Mr. Al Brown, that I may number you as amongst my detractors. Congratulations! Now you may join the others in the "Ignore" bin. 

G

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[kiwidad]

On 5/22/2025 at 11:00 AM, Al Brown said:

If you scoop all the M11 issues and all the X2D issues from the internet and peers and also ask any AI app that does that about the comparison you will realize that the M11 has more frequently reported reliability issues, particularly concerning freezing, SSD and lens recognition, coupled with prolonged service times. The X2D OTOH is generally reliable and major issues are not commonly reported. So the ratio is somewhere at 70:30 according to my educated guess.

Can you apply a curve for to compensate for numbers sold and Hasselblad owners down live online whining. I always thought the 'blads were supremely built and designed till I found out there is a tool for fixing a design flaw also know as a user error on the 500 series! The issue I read about the X2D have also entered my thoughts on moving from my M11 to one. Being old I just don't really care anymore about what might go wrong, technology is not perfect in any application.. "have you tried rebooting it?" At least my M11 doesn't overheat like my Fujis did 🙂

[kiwidad]

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On 5/22/2025 at 11:10 AM, Al Brown said:

To @wolan

I use X2D and my digital Ms (M10-P and -R) for almost all my professional photographic work.

I absolutely love working with both systems and could not choose eaiter-or as they both fill a distinct niche in my work.

If I needed to decide for one system for the sake of my life it would have been the Hasselblad X2D. I include a shot from Osaka.

Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here…

Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members!

Are you trying to show me IBIS or white balance here? noise perhaps?  I think my summilux and M11 could match this 🙂

[kiwidad]

52 minutes ago, Al Brown said:

Every modern camera can match this in all but personal user experience and joy.

And thats exactly why I shoot leica , Personal user experience and joy!

I like to get my old 500c out from time to time but Leica is the only modern camera whose user experience is unchanged mostly since 1953!
 

if they could just shrink that ‘blad !

[IkarusJohn]

On 5/24/2025 at 5:25 AM, ramarren said:

I don't see the point of these sorts of rants. 

I have owned Leica cameras since the 1970s, Hasselblads since the 1980s, and own/use both systems still today, with both film and digital bodies/backs. I've had only a very few minor problems with either. On the rare occasions when I did, the Leica USA and Hasselblad USA support services have both done a great job of taking care of me. 

Many of my photographer friends also have Hasselblad and Leica equipment, both new and old. I don't hear much ranting from them either. 

G

I’m very happy for you, Godfrey.  But that doesn’t reflect my experience.

Yes, I’ve had more than my fair share of Leica repairs and generally they’ve been very good.  A lot slower recently, but still good.

Converssely, Hasselblad hasn’t been so easy.  I suspect I’ve been unlucky.  My X2D has been flawless, however I had a shutter failure with my XCD 38V after less than 6 months of use.  I reported the problem coming on for 18 months or so; Hasselblad acknowledged the warranty claim, and agreed to provide a replacement.  But, I’m still waiting.  They did lend me an XCD 80/1.9, and that was kind of them, but it’s not the lens I want.

These days, with cameras always pushing the limits of technology, small niche producers like Leica and Hasselblad will always have faults (hopefully not as bad as the M11 release).  The point is, how they fix the problem.

[wattsy]

4 hours ago, IkarusJohn said:

however I had a shutter failure with my XCD 38V after less than 6 months of use.  I reported the problem coming on for 18 months or so; Hasselblad acknowledged the warranty claim, and agreed to provide a replacement.  But, I’m still waiting.  They did lend me an XCD 80/1.9, and that was kind of them, but it’s not the lens I want.

Whilst I imagine it is quite an interesting lens to use, the 80/f1.9 is an odd lens for HB to loan as a replacement for the 38V. Are you really still waiting for your 38V to be sorted, John? 

[IkarusJohn]

10 hours ago, wattsy said:

Whilst I imagine it is quite an interesting lens to use, the 80/f1.9 is an odd lens for HB to loan as a replacement for the 38V. Are you really still waiting for your 38V to be sorted, John? 

Yep.  More confirmation they will rrplace it under warranty, with no confirmation when.  Odd, considering the local dealer has the lens in stock.  Surely, it’s just an accounting exercise with them?

I had th 80/1.9 previously.  It is a very special lens, but heavy and the AF is glacial.  Last time I had it, I came to the conclusion that the 0.95 Noct on my M10-D was faster and the results just as special, though in a different way.

[pedaes]

5 minutes ago, IkarusJohn said:

I had th 80/1.9 previously

Perhaps we should change title of thread to be more generic. It is good for some Leica users to see it is not all sweetness and light with other tip top Brands!

[S Maclean]

On 5/19/2025 at 4:49 PM, wolan said:

Hi,

with all due respect for all the Leica supporters I have to say that I am totally fed up with the Leica cameras. 

I am so happy I replaced my M11 with a Hasselblad X2D and I'll never go back again. I find in the Hasselblad system everything I was missing with Leica.

I am still using a M11 monochrome, but just until Hasselblad does not come up with its own monochrome camera or at least a nice monochrome profile, like Nikon did and which I am starting to use more and more.

Here is a list of problems that have plagued my shootings and that no firmware was able to fix so far (I do not have the very last one in, but does not seem to address the problems below anyway):

• Freezes: granted, it got better over time, but I am still experiencing 1 or 2 freezes every shooting. Battery in and out fixes the problem
• Green focus peaking with EVF: this problem is not the end of the world, but it is extremely annoying, so much the more because I am sure it would not take much to fix it. Sometimes for no reason the blue focus peaking, which I have always been using, turns green. Typically, zooming in and out while keeping the eye on the EVF will fix the problem. 
• (New entry after last firmware update): When using the display profile with the gauge level the gauge level does not move when turning the camera in vertical position. Fix: battery out, battery in
• (New entry since last shooting): Apparently only when using a new adapter for Mamiya 645 lenses: the EVF turns black after shooting and then previewing a picture on the back display. Pushing the "Play" button 2 times in a row seems to fix the problem...

Now, consider that I was a happy Leica M246 shooter, which I think is still the best black and white camera Leica has ever made. But because of the challenges with using that camera, I upgraded to M10M, which was also good. But because of the many incompatibility problems with the EVF and repeated freezes I ended up upgrading the EVF to Visoflex 2, only to find out that it could be used in a limited way and the compatibility problems were not fixed anyway. So I ended up buying the supposedly best of best, M11M with the Visoflex 2.

I am really sick this attitude and as I said I totally am happy to have switched to Hasselblad. I do not blame the engineers, I think they are doing their best. I blame the marketing who pushes for new features, new Safari versions without fixing the quality problem first.

Thanks for your attention, I'll be glad to hear your point of view.

Nico.

As a Hasselblad fan I can tell you that the hassy files with the bypass filter converted to BW are as good as the monochrome files (without it).

This said, I find the 100 mp files cumbersome at times, and overall the SL system better suited for my shooting thatn the X2d.  I traded the x2d and a couple of lenses for the m11 Monochrome and kept the 907x.

What you do have to think about when you make a blanket statement about leica is....what system?  M is....particular. SL is incredible and more flexible than hasselblad in offering. Hasselblad still has the lead on IQ, but not by much.  And the fact I can use my M lenses with the SL is a plus.  The Q is pure Joy. Grab and go, no need to complicate things or think.  Hasselblad does NOT have that.

As much as I love the x2d and hasselblad, 95% of the time I grabbed the SL if what I wanted was big lenses, high quality and didnt mind the weight etc. So the 907x stays becasue I can still use that with the 500 series and vintage lenses. The hassy is limited to it's own environment unless you want to shoot with elevtric shutter all day (not for me)

The deal breaker for me on the X2d was the very slow autofocus and bad performance in low light (of the AF, not the camera)  Fo course if that was just the driver for me I would go fuji or Sony, but the SL3 is enough for me and I like the compatibility for all my systems.

Once Leica brings a new medium format camera I'll probably go for that...

[ramarren]

21 hours ago, IkarusJohn said:

I’m very happy for you, Godfrey.  But that doesn’t reflect my experience.

Yes, I’ve had more than my fair share of Leica repairs and generally they’ve been very good.  A lot slower recently, but still good.

Converssely, Hasselblad hasn’t been so easy.  I suspect I’ve been unlucky.  My X2D has been flawless, however I had a shutter failure with my XCD 38V after less than 6 months of use.  I reported the problem coming on for 18 months or so; Hasselblad acknowledged the warranty claim, and agreed to provide a replacement.  But, I’m still waiting.  They did lend me an XCD 80/1.9, and that was kind of them, but it’s not the lens I want.

These days, with cameras always pushing the limits of technology, small niche producers like Leica and Hasselblad will always have faults (hopefully not as bad as the M11 release).  The point is, how they fix the problem.

Sorry to hear of your difficulties, IK. 

G

[wolan]

vor 6 Stunden schrieb S Maclean:

As a Hasselblad fan I can tell you that the hassy files with the bypass filter converted to BW are as good as the monochrome files (without it).

This said, I find the 100 mp files cumbersome at times, and overall the SL system better suited for my shooting thatn the X2d.  I traded the x2d and a couple of lenses for the m11 Monochrome and kept the 907x.

What you do have to think about when you make a blanket statement about leica is....what system?  M is....particular. SL is incredible and more flexible than hasselblad in offering. Hasselblad still has the lead on IQ, but not by much.  And the fact I can use my M lenses with the SL is a plus.  The Q is pure Joy. Grab and go, no need to complicate things or think.  Hasselblad does NOT have that.

As much as I love the x2d and hasselblad, 95% of the time I grabbed the SL if what I wanted was big lenses, high quality and didnt mind the weight etc. So the 907x stays becasue I can still use that with the 500 series and vintage lenses. The hassy is limited to it's own environment unless you want to shoot with elevtric shutter all day (not for me)

The deal breaker for me on the X2d was the very slow autofocus and bad performance in low light (of the AF, not the camera)  Fo course if that was just the driver for me I would go fuji or Sony, but the SL3 is enough for me and I like the compatibility for all my systems.

Once Leica brings a new medium format camera I'll probably go for that...

I was mostly referring to the Leica M system. I had the SL2s for some time, great camera indeed, but could not figure out what was really better than my Nikon so, I sold it after some time.

Hasselblad is not perfect of course. In fact, what I said in my rant about the Leica M11 I could have said it about the X1D. When it came out it had some rather appalling limitations and issues. However, keep in my that the Leica M system has been around for decades, the Hasselblad X system was new at that time. Basically, they invented the concept of portable mirrorless medium format, so one can understand that at the beginning things might not be perfect.

Portability is indeed a problem, even with the compact P lenses I cannot really leave home with more than 2-3 lenses. However, the Hasselblad files are huge, and this is the first system where I use cropping as a creative tool without worrying about loosing resolution or IQ.

Cheers