Flash suggestions for handheld shooting.

[Jonathan Levin]

Advertisement (gone after registration)

The Nikon sb700 I was hoping to adapt for SL3 shooting is not working out. And I know that ttl would not work, manual only.

Years ago I had a Sunpac 611 flash that had a sensor that mounted on the hot shoe of camera. The sensor had a dial on top that you set the ISO (to match camera ISO) and the f/stop you wanted (also to match camera). I was then able to hand-hold flash at any angle/distance and get perfectly exposed images.

Is there such a thing these days? Any recomendations? I guess the SB700 goes on ebay.

Thanks. Jonathan

[Advertisement]

The Leica Q3 is available for pre-order at B&H Photo Video and Adorama

[crf59]

Jonathan, there are some flashes out there that can be triggered by the SL3 (not in TTL mode). Godox makes one (V850 maybe?) that has the appropriate low trigger voltage and positive center contact. Leica really should allow 3rd party vendors to use their flash protocols. I gave up and bought a Leica SF60 (which does work very well, but it was almost $700 - silly).

Good luck!

Chuck

[Anbaric]

57 minutes ago, Jonathan Levin said:

Years ago I had a Sunpac 611 flash that had a sensor that mounted on the hot shoe of camera. The sensor had a dial on top that you set the ISO (to match camera ISO) and the f/stop you wanted (also to match camera). I was then able to hand-hold flash at any angle/distance and get perfectly exposed images.

There are many other flashes that have built-in sensors that can work in this way, including (e.g.) the Nikon flagship models (SB-910, SB-900, SB-800, SB-80, SB-28 etc.), but not their recent second tier models (which are TTL / manual only, as you've found). You can use these off-camera, of course, but the sensor might be some distance from the camera, which could lead to less accurate exposures in some situations.

I don't think any recent flash has a separate light sensor, as this mode of operation was largely superseded by TTL flash. Metz (now defunct) used to have something similar to what you describe, the Mecamat sensor. Be careful of high trigger voltages with some older flash gear that might do bad things to your SL3. The Nikon flashes mentioned above should all have low trigger voltages, though I sometimes wonder if the identical positions of Nikon's and Leica's dedicated flash pins might cause an unexpected signal to be transmitted to the camera when the flash is mounted in the hotshoe, with unknown consequences. To be safe, it might be better to use a PC sync cable and a cold shoe to hot shoe adapter when using a Nikon flash on a Leica with TTL flash metering.

Edited November 4, 2024 by Anbaric

[LocalHero1953]

I used the SB-28 for many years, both on and off camera (M9, M240, SL) in this “Auto” mode. Built like a tank and readily found on eBay at good prices (or it used to be).

While TTL may be useful for events and run-and-gun, it is less critical for studio and set up lighting: the great thing about digital is that you can quickly use trial-and-error to get your lighting balance right. Not getting antsy about TTL is a great relief, and gives you a wider choice of flash. 

[Jonathan Levin]

Thanks for the replies!

17 hours ago, Anbaric said:

There are many other flashes that have built-in sensors that can work in this way, including (e.g.) the Nikon flagship models (SB-910, SB-900, SB-800, SB-80, SB-28 etc.), but not their recent second tier models (which are TTL / manual only, as you've found). You can use these off-camera, of course, but the sensor might be some distance from the camera, which could lead to less accurate exposures in some situations.

I don't think any recent flash has a separate light sensor, as this mode of operation was largely superseded by TTL flash. Metz (now defunct) used to have something similar to what you describe, the Mecamat sensor. Be careful of high trigger voltages with some older flash gear that might do bad things to your SL3. The Nikon flashes mentioned above should all have low trigger voltages, though I sometimes wonder if the identical positions of Nikon's and Leica's dedicated flash pins might cause an unexpected signal to be transmitted to the camera when the flash is mounted in the hotshoe, with unknown consequences. To be safe, it might be better to use a PC sync cable and a cold shoe to hot shoe adapter when using a Nikon flash on a Leica with TTL flash metering.

Anbaric. Thanks for that. I see what you are saying about the "second tier" flashes which apparently the 700 is. I looked at the manual for an SB800 and it looks like that has the option to set ISO which means that in one of the bewildering modes it should work as a handheld. The question is how to trigger that. I have a crazy set up now where I have a Pocketwizard Plus 3 transmitter on the camera which is cabled (mini plug to mini plug 1/8") to a hot shoe that I got on B&H and that is mounted to the SB700, if that makes any sense. I mention the SB800 because a friend has a few that he is trying to sell, so one might work for me.

I miss the Sunpac 611 and hotshot mounted sensor. That worked great on my M's. Think the secret sauce is the ability to set ISO on unit to match camera and ability to set f/stop on camera once and shoot away. I hear you about trigger voltages. If only there was a way to have the PocketWizard or other be able to communicate wireless to the SB800. I'd need two SB800's to do that: one on camera to be transmitter and the other to light. If anyone has insight or a how to, which mode, whatever to achieve what I'm trying to do, please do share. Thanks again.. Jonathan

[LocalHero1953]

Back when I used the SB28, I triggered it with a Pocketwizard transmitter in the hotshoe and a Pocketwizard receiver on the SB28 (or rather, the SB28 in the hotshoe of the receiver. Sadly for Pocketwizard, Godox came along with transmitters a fraction of the price, and low priced Godox flashes with receivers built in. I'm surprised Pocketwizard are still around!

Somewhere in your suggested system you will need a sensor: you can set aperture and ISO on the flash, but a sensor is still needed to tell it when to quench the flash. 

[Olaf_ZG]

Advertisement (gone after registration)

I bought a godox 100pro for this. It’s small yet strong. It can’t be fit on the camera, but it is self standing. 

[Anbaric]

1 hour ago, Jonathan Levin said:

Think the secret sauce is the ability to set ISO on unit to match camera and ability to set f/stop on camera once and shoot away.

This at least you can do on the SB-800 etc., it's just that the sensor can't be separated from the flash, which may not give optimal exposures if the camera and the flash are far apart, because it's the light that reaches the camera that matters and the flash is sensing the light from its own position. See the manual:

https://cdn-10.nikon-cdn.com/pdf/manuals/Speedlights/SB-800.pdf

The relevant mode is what Nikon calls 'Non-TTL auto flash' mode or [A] mode. For setting this, see p40-41. For setting the ISO and how it works in [A] mode see 'Notes on setting the Speedlight’s ISO sensitivity' on p24.

I was thinking only of cabled off-camera flash rather than wireless. For cabled, you could presumably use something like this to provide a PC socket (I see now that the SL3 doesn't seem to have one built in):

https://www.jjc.cc/index/goods/detail.html?id=1367

This would also be useful for another reason. Leica has this dire warning in the SL3 manual:

'Other flash units, which only have a positive center contact, can be safely fired via the Leica SL3, but cannot be controlled via the camera. ... The use of incompatible flash units with your Leica SL3 may result in irreparable damage to the camera and/or the flash unit.'

If the Nikon flash is mounted directly in the SL3 hotshoe, the extra contacts will line up (because both Nikon and Leica put them in the same place, even though the dedicated flash systems are otherwise incompatible) and it's conceivable that Bad Things might happen (I don't know how likely this is in practice). But with the adapter mounted in the hotshoe, with the flash on top, only the centre contact should be connected. Note that I haven't tried any of this - I have an SB-800, but not an SL3!

Edited November 4, 2024 by Anbaric

[Jonathan Levin]

Thanks again localhero, olaf, anbaric, and cf.

Anbaric. I did download the 800 manual before you posted and came to the same conclusion that A mode may be a good starting point with a lot of testing. Since you dont yet have a SL3, if I blow up my camera I could sell you mine real cheap! Once I borrow (or steal) my friends SB800, I’ll report back with results,settings et al. 

[Jonathan Levin]

And that flash shoe is identical to the one I bought from B&H. 

[JohnathanLovm]

If you want both TTL and HSS on handheld you're gonna go with SF40 or SF60. Tried the Godox route but it's not very ergonomic way.

[Jonathan Levin]

I posted this on another thread but thought it appropriate here. Delete if I am being bad:

So I borrowed a friends SB 800 to use with the SL3, the Nikor 60 Macro and the Novoflex F-SL adaptor. While it is a bit clunky to use, I did manage to get everything working very well! And as a plus it seemed to work well with the Nikon ES-2 slide copier to, even filling most of the frame. The front Zoom image button on camera made focusing on the film pretty easy. The flash just needed to be the kind that you can set to Non-ttl, be able to set your own ISO and F/stop. Match those setting on camera. So the flash is determining how much light to output. Not perfect, but at least this won't go on eBay for a bit anyway. Thanks for your help!