Dumb ? about closest focusing distance

[SiMPLiFY]

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I am fairly new to Rangefinder and Leica

 

I have a Leica M2 and a 50mm Summicron. I have been trying to get some decent photos and am having a bit of trouble with my framing due to the length of the closest focusing distance. It seems that I cannot get as close and frame quite as tight as I am used to doing. I see so many wonderful shots with interesting backgrounds on the sharing section of this forum and elsewhere using this same kit.

 

I suppose I need to adjust my psychology of how to approach this problem.

 

Any hints, tips, guidance etc ... would be appreciated as I am truly wasting film and chemicals and filled with disappointment. My backgrounds just look cluttered and distracting to me and I can't get closer. Do you crop in the dark room? Would a 90mm suit my shooting style better? Could I even hand hold that long lens?

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[rubenkok]

Hi Kathleen,

Here is the M2 manual

maybe it is of some help.

RF start at 70 cm, so if you need more close up go for a 90 or 135 mm lens

Here is some more information on (new) lenses

What would you like to photograph ? Maybe there are other solutions

All the best

Ruben

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[SiMPLiFY]

Thank You for your helpful reply.

 

I would like to frame faces tightly like this example. It seems as though my lens must include more background and more of the body than I would like.

 

http://www.l-camera-forum.com/leica-forum/people/41940-painted-faced-man.html

[SiMPLiFY]

ps. I cannot afford new lenses. Mine appears to be a collapsible 50mm Summicron f/2.0 if that helps?

 

It says Summicron f 5cm 1 2 Nr 1104750

Ernst Leitz GmbH Wetzler

inside the lens

 

closest focusing distance appears to be 1 meter (around 3 feet?)

[xjr]

3.28ft to be correct. Distracting backround ? try shots at f2.0

[StS]

ps. I cannot afford new lenses. Mine appears to be a collapsible 50mm Summicron f/2.0 if that helps?

 

It says Summicron f 5cm 1 2 Nr 1104750

Ernst Leitz GmbH Wetzler

inside the lens

 

closest focusing distance appears to be 1 meter (around 3 feet?)

 

I have the same lens, the closest distance is indeed about 1 meter (about 3.3 feet). Taking portraits with this lens works nicely for two people but needs some cropping for one person. In this case I set the lens to the shortest focusing distance and adjust the distance of the camera until the double images match.

[rubenkok]

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Hi Kathleen,

 

On the Leica SUMMICRON f/2/50mm the smallest object field: 277 mm x 416 mm

so that would be a head and shoulders. (This is on 0.7 m)

 

This picture is made with a 50 mm too:

http://www.l-camera-forum.com/leica-forum/people/40561-fisherman-malta.html

 

Picture found here Henri Cartier-Bresson

For about 40 years HCB shot with a collapsible Summicron

So..........

All the best

Ruben

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[SiMPLiFY]

I have the same lens, the closest distance is indeed about 1 meter (about 3.3 feet). Taking portraits with this lens works nicely for two people but needs some cropping for one person. In this case I set the lens to the shortest focusing distance and adjust the distance of the camera until the double images match.

 

Thanks! Do you normally try to stay at f/2.0 for a single subject? Does it isolate the background nicely for you?

 

Now I am anxious to test yet another roll! I wish I'd asked months ago!

[SiMPLiFY]

Hi Kathleen,

 

On the Leica SUMMICRON f/2/50mm the smallest object field: 277 mm x 416 mm

so that would be a head and shoulders. (This is on 0.7 m)

 

This picture is made with a 50 mm too:

http://www.l-camera-forum.com/leica-forum/people/40561-fisherman-malta.html

 

Picture found here Henri Cartier-Bresson

For about 40 years HCB shot with a collapsible Summicron

So..........

All the best

Ruben

 

The link to the fisherman shot is amazing! @ f/1.4!!!!! WOW!!! I Love that photo too!!!!

 

I suppose if it was good enough for HCB then surely I can learn to eek out something acceptable!

 

Thanks so much! My enthusiasm has returned and I can't wait to try an entire roll at f/2.0 just to see what happens now that I'm armed with some examples and a little more knowledge!

[SiMPLiFY]

ps. I tend toward ISO 400 - 1/60 - f/4 for ambient indoors automatically. I suppose if background is close to subject it would not give me that shallow depth of field look I like so much.

 

I need to think ISO 400 - f/2 - 1/250 for Leica!

[StS]

...Would a 90mm suit my shooting style better? Could I even hand hold that long lens?

 

I could recommend an easy test - according to the manual posted by Ruben the M2 should have the lever to change the frames between 35mm, 50mm and 90mm without changing lenses.

 

There shouldn't be an issue to hand hold a 90mm lens, as long the shutter speed is fast enough - 1/100 (or 1/125 for newer models) should suffice .

 

Footnote - there is rule of thumb for hand held photos the shutter speed should be faster than the focal lenght but shouldn't be slower than 1/50 (1/60) even for short focal lenghts. In practice I have been lucky with much slower speeds using lampposts and letter boxes as support.

[rubenkok]

ps. I suppose if background is close to subject it would not give me that shallow depth of field look I like so much.

 

 

Aha..you are looking for Bokeh - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

More on DOF, have a look here Online Depth of Field Calculator

All the best

Ruben

[StS]

Thanks! Do you normally try to stay at f/2.0 for a single subject? Does it isolate the background nicely for you?

 

Now I am anxious to test yet another roll! I wish I'd asked months ago!

 

Please find an example attached. I do not remember whether this was f/2.0 or f/2.8 (which also already gives a nice soft background). Please do not distribute this image, I didn't ask the person whether it is OK to post his image in the internet.

 

It is the same collapsible Summicron, the M3 used doesn't matter since it is just the film holder.

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[SiMPLiFY]

That is exactly what I would love to achieve! Thank you so much and I will not download this as an inspiration piece although I'd love to; I do respect your request and will not do it.

 

I'm off to look up the links Ruben posted!

 

Thank you all so much for helping me so thoroughly and quickly!

 

I am off to Europe in May and would love to master this tool and the technique so I can make some nice memories! London, Paris, Chartres, Netherlands and then home again. This is a once in a lifetime trip for me. I would love to get nice portraits of my friends over there to bring home and remember them by.

[StS]

This image is not brilliant (one of the first images I took with the M3) but no objections by the person on the mugshot to be posted on the internet... I'm pretty sure it was f/2.0 using the minimum focus distance.

 

I guess nobody will object if you download the other image and just use it privately to study the technique. I just would like to avoid the image gets passed on.

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[SiMPLiFY]

Thanks! Is that you? I wonder how one takes a photo of oneself like that? I did download both for my little Leica iPhoto Album. I sync it to my iPod and study them while I am waiting here, there and everywhere. Great way to pass the time and there is so much talent here! I can't wait to get something good enough to show off! It's intimidating but also quite an exciting challenge too! Maybe soon I will be able to post something worthy.

[adan]

Hi, Kathleen:

 

The first point I would make is rangefinders have this little thing called "parallax error" - the lens is taking the picture from a point 2 inches away from the photographer's viewpoint through the finder. Not a big deal at 10 feet, but it starts to make the final picture significantly different in composition at really close distances.

 

Leica was extra-conservative in designing the original M3 and its lenses, and thus put a 1 meter limit on how close they cound focus, to force photographers to stay in the "safe" range. After about 5-6 years they shortened that to 0.7 meters, but any camera or lens made in those early years of the system have the 1-meter limit. Many can be converted to 0.7 meter focusing.

 

RFs are great cameras with their own set of advantages, but really close focusing is not one of them.

 

You mentioned that you cannot afford a different or extra lens yet. However, if the time should come when you can:

 

1) Leica had a work-around for the limit in those early years, called the Dual-Range Summicron 50mm. It came with a set of clip-on goggles that corrected for parallax to a closer limit.

 

2) 50mm Summicrons made after the change to 0.7 meter focusing will obviously give you tighter compositions - and are among the least expensive used M lenses, often under $600.

 

3) 90 Tele-Elmarits (f/2.8) made in the 1960-80s are very small and light (they were intentionally designed to fit into the same camera case that normally holds a camera and 50mm), and quite easily hand-holdable. At their close limit of 1 meter they will frame tighter than any 50mm, even those that go to 0.7 meters. These older lenses also can be found for $650-750 or so.

[SiMPLiFY]

Thanks Andy,

 

I can use the 50 for photos that show some environment to give the viewer a sense of place. For the time being I may be happier with results if I actually move the subject into a pleasing background until I develop my ability to see and work faster. I obviously still need to develop my eye for this as well as my technique. I'll get there eventually.

 

Thanks again! Viewing the work here is a real inspiration for me.

 

There is just something I love about a Leica and B&W film result. Hard to put a finger on it or find a word to describe it. Comforting perhaps?

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[StS]

Hi Kathleen, we are all stil learning and you are in the advantageous situation to have the images in mind you want to make. I'm sure the technicalities of photography are easier to learn than creativity.

 

Two possibilities come in mind to turn front to back again for images taken from a mirror. Since you mention a darkroom the film can be inserted 'upside down' in the enlarger. Normally the more glossy side goes upside, for an image from a mirror the more matte side should face up (up = to the condenser (light source), down = to the lens just in case, although I never heard of enlargers having a partly horizontal light path).

 

The other one is to have the image scanned, most image processing programs will have the option to flip the image around an axis. For more in-detail discussions I would recommend to move to the Film Forum, since this is where the experts go who make images by alchemy.

[Shootist]

Thank You for your helpful reply.

 

I would like to frame faces tightly like this example. It seems as though my lens must include more background and more of the body than I would like.

 

http://www.l-camera-forum.com/leica-forum/people/41940-painted-faced-man.html

 

Checking the framing with a 50mm lens on my M3 I would say that shot you linked to is either taken very very close to the subject or cropped out of a larger image. In fact the dimensions of that image don't correspond to the 3:2 ratio of 35mm film so even if it was taken very close to the subject it is still a cropped image.

Even the greatest photographers did a lot of work in the darkroom to make certain shots shine. It's just not about pointing the camera at something and pushing the shutter button. Knowing how, where and when to push the shutter button helps but it is not the end of the process.

 

Good luck with your M2, you will enjoy for many years to come