OT: NYT article on Apple Stores

[ho_co]

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Brief article on the success of Apple Stores.

 

IMHO interesting for Leica due to perceived similarity of product and marketing concept.

 

Inside Apple Stores, a Certain Aura Enchants the Faithful - New York Times

[Shootist]

I wouldn't say there is any similarity, perceived or not, between Leica products and Apple products and I don't think there business model are anything alike.

Almost everyone uses a computer and now a MP3 player of some type. Although taking photos has become a lot easier these days not everyone is doing it, and if they are it's with there Cell Phone.

 

Oh well, I didn't read the article but if you say it was good I'll take your word on that.

[sdai]

In fact, Leica has something similar, at least they have one in Japan ... I think there's also one in Berlin but I'm not sure.

 

Leica Ginza Shop

[ho_co]

Exactly, Simon. And yes, there is one in Berlin.

 

But if I'm not mistaken, Leica's approach is to have a dealer handle the store. I don't think these are Leica stores in the same sense that an Apple Store is, i.e. owned and operated by the manufacturer/marketer.

 

Leica has two "Leica Stores," I think. Apple has 230 "Apple Stores."

 

Thirty years back, Leica USA tried to establish a Leica Specialist Dealer network, a store-in-store predecessor to the "Leica Store" concept, but again with emphasis on the dealers' responsibility to buy and stock. (Today's Berlin Leica Store is, I think, owned and run by an old-line Hamburg dealer.)

 

In Apple's case, they weren't moving enough merchandise through conventional distribution channels, even after trying the "store within a store" concept, so they rethought the matter from ground up, with the ideas mentioned in the NY Times article.

 

Pity the ceramic that Leica was working on for false teeth didn't work out. That could have been their iPod.

 

--HC

[jhild]

I couldn´t believe my eyes when I saw a tv report about people in the US camping outside shops waiting for some new mobile phone to be sold. I have been reading

the newspaper article mentioned above and can´t understand the hype about all this.

Personally I don´t have or want a mobile phone and have a computer only because there

are so many friends of mine all over the world. I don´t have a DSLR, just some older SLR´s

and a number of Leicas. I know many kids that almost can´t play anymore (old style playing

if you understand), they are computercrazy and can´t use their fingers anymore but just for

"playing" on the computerboard.

I don´t want to make this a big argument but who is Apple, do they want to make people

happy or is it just Mr. Jobs who has discovered that some of his pockets are still not really

filled up enough with money. The boy who spends part of his holiday in a computershop

with his parents happily watching everything tells me a lot...

 

Jo

[ho_co]

Joachim--

I also don't have a cell phone and see no general use for one except perhaps for emergencies. But as you saw--"people in the US camping outside shops waiting for some new mobile phone"--you and I are not typical of this new generation.

 

Apple is a public corporation which seemed ten or twenty years ago on the verge of bankruptcy. Steve Jobs has brought it back from the precipice and made it very successful. To a great degree, that is done in our world by making people want things they don't need.

 

Before Apple came up with the iPod, the Macintosh was a cult computer. The spill-over of customers shopping for iPods but being exposed also to the Mac has brought Mac sales up tremendously.

 

I posted the link here because I think there may be something that Leica can learn from Apple's approach. I think that Mssrs Lee and Kauffmann also recognize the usefulness of a synergistic approach to marketing, as we see in the Summarits for example: I think those are the first lenses that Leica has introduced (in the past half-century at least) that became available, shippable, in stock, in quantity within a couple months of announcement.

 

I agree that there are important questions to be raised about us Americans' addiction to our computers--whether that is a good use of our time, how to reduce the amount of environmental degradation caused by the increased power usage brought about by having a number of computers and rechargeable devices, how the loss of a more active lifestyle will affect our health, etc.

 

I appreciate your time in reading the article and in posting your thoughts.

 

--HC

[AlanG]

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I couldn´t believe my eyes when I saw a tv report about people in the US camping outside shops waiting for some new mobile phone to be sold. I have been reading the newspaper article mentioned above and can´t understand the hype about all this.

...

 

For unknown reasons, last summer some friends and I spent several days "camping outside" at some wooded streamside location in West Virginia. Oddly we didn't ever get to the point where we could buy any products and ended up spending the entire time just talking, eating, and sitting around. What was that all about? At least the campers in NYC had a purpose. (BTW - I own stock in Apple.)

[jhild]

Hi Howard,

 

don´t misunderstand me, all those hypes you have in the US will swap over to Europe sooner or later, people here are crazy about mobiles and computers as well. Now as far as Leica is

concerned I think the idea about copying the Apple concept is basically not so bad but

Cameras and the related stuff isn´t something people want or need so much everyday

Leica is certainly not a cheap product, even the new Summarit lenses aren´t cheap if one

looks all accross the market, we Leica lovers think they are cheap because we have become used to the Leica prices already.

 

I think Leica can be compared with very expensive clothing, there might be a shop at Paris,

NY and Berlin and there might be some big stores in big cities selling these things amongst

others but that´s it. Plus the fact that mobiles and computers are mass production products

so the seller/s can meet high demand but Leica certainly isn´t and has never been like

this.

I had to wait a couple of month when I bought my cron 75asph new, that was not pleasant

while a VC 75 was available right away but I had a chance to compare both in every

respect and I think I have made the right decision. So I think it´s a fact that one has to

be patient when buying Leica.

So to me a fancy shop where you can look at things but can´t buy most of them right

away doesn´t make much sense, if Leica would seriously think about mass production

they probably had to go the "Cosina/Voigtlaender way", do we really want this?

I think if Leica can survive with the way they are now they should do so. And don´t

forget, a computer or a mobile is something made for the bin but a Leica isn´t.

 

Just a little bit more as my two cents

 

Joachim

[ho_co]

Joachim--

I agree. I think we are on the same page.

 

Apple was a niche computer maker until they came up with a "must-have" product in the iPod. As you said, it's hard to think of Leica coming out with a "must-have" product of any sort. But the stylish, easy-to-use MP3 player that Apple came out with has brought people to their market and furthered the sale of their computers. I have no idea what product could do the same for Leica, but then until the iPod became an overnight success, no one would have told Apple, "Hey, what you need is a really nice MP3 player."

 

And for as long as I've known Leica, their lenses have been unavailable. There's a kind of "old-world charm" about knowing that you'll have to take your turn in line to get this high-quality product.

 

We'll need to see how the much-less-expensive Summarits fare in the marketplace. They are a bargain as Leica products go, and they are apparently readily available; but they bring with them the stigma of "no, not quite as good as the best, but very close."

 

One of the benefits Leica has always had was that one didn't have to read the reviews to find out if this was the best that one could have. You could buy an f/2 or an f/1.4, but you didn't have to ask, "is this in the amateur line or the pro line?" Leica is doing a good job of marketing the Summarits--certainly pro caliber, but lacking the last edge of perfection that the higher price lenses bring--but there's a slight erosion in the "quality at any cost" image.

 

A Leica Store that has only equipment to fondle is not much to speak of, as you say. In an Apple Store, if I want it, I can generally take it home.

 

And the camera business is definitely out of touch with the "modern" trend. Everyone thinks he needs a new cell phone because his neighbor's phone has more features than his own. That's not the case with cameras, and particularly not the case with Leica.

 

When I this thread, I was hoping to spur some discussion about the similarities and differences between the concepts and products of Apple and Leica.

 

But you're the only one who bothered to engage in discussion of the matter. Ed seems to speak for just about everyone else on the forum when he says he sees no similarity at all.

 

That again speaks to the problem: Leica is what it is, and there are very few analogies one can make.

 

I thank you for your observations, and I wish you 'nen guten Rutsch.

 

--HC

[ibogost]

I find this a pretty compelling suggestion. However, I wonder if Apple is not the right comparison. Instead, maybe it's Montblanc, or Prada, or Tiffany.

 

The idea of very high profile, specialty stores for brand-name products with a legacy that goes beyond mere image is nothing new. And Leica certainly could fall in this camp, if it chose to. The Ginza and Berlin stores speak to the potential, as you point out.

 

There's probably not reason to have 230 Leica stores. But maybe 10, right, in places like London, New York, Berlin, San Francisco, etc. I'd be happy to visit them when I am in these cities.

 

The problem with the Apple stores is that they really don't provide any special expertise. There are the Genius Bars of course, and the hipster sales kids, but as someone who makes a living from research on and production of computer software and hardware, I can attest to the fact that the Apple store workers are not the most knowledgeable cats around. I think it used to be like that though, when there were fewer stores.

 

I think that's the key though: corporate owned and operated like the Apple stores, but with very deep expertise such that you can go in and really get what you need in terms of sales and service.

[ho_co]

Ian--

Very good assessment.

 

Without question, knowledge and depth are needed. In regard to Apple's salesfolk, I can only say that they seem pretty much able to answer my needs, but as you've guessed, my computer questions aren't that sophisticated.

 

Good point that 230 Leica Stores would be counter-productive, if not downright destructive.

 

And when you mention names like Montblanc, Prada and Tiffany, I'm reminded of the problem with all cross-brand analogies: A salesman might see that a customer is wearing a Patek Philippe watch and venture that "The Leica is the Patek of cameras." But the salesman isn't aware that his customer is heading for the Patek repair center angry with the fact that he has had nothing but problems with his watch and wants to throw it in someone's face.

 

Finding the right combination is the problem--what works for Givenchy isn't likely to work for Leica.

 

--HC

[ibogost]

Yeah, I'm afraid I find Apple's sales and service both to be very mediocre since they started expanding the number of stores. The volume of customers doesn't help either.

 

Brand comparisons are always an issue. But since the release of the M8, most of the gripes we've seen have not really been about the products, but about communication from the company. Knowing that you could go into a store and have a real conversation with someone would make a difference. I don't know that any of the brands I mentioned have the sort of ongoing use that demands this sort of thing -- maybe the better comparison is Porsche rather than Givenchy.

[ho_co]

Yeah, I'm afraid I find Apple's sales and service both to be very mediocre since they started expanding the number of stores. The volume of customers doesn't help either.

Come to think of it, my hearing is getting so bad that with all the noise in the stores, I may just THINK the Apple salesmen have answered my questions!

 

... since the release of the M8, most of the gripes we've seen have not really been about the products, but about communication from the company. Knowing that you could go into a store and have a real conversation with someone would make a difference....

That would absolutely have solved most of the issues we've had.

 

--HC

[jhild]

To Howard and all the others,

 

interesting reading, that´s why I prefer the international forum from the German version. I

have said what I wanted to and besides all this my English is somewhat limited. I hope

Leica is still here for a long time and wish you all a happy new year, guten Rutsch

 

Joachim