SL3 Firmware 1.1.9 Does not fix 1/16000 Electronic Shutter Speed Fail

[Ken Abrahams]

Advertisement (gone after registration)

I am a bit late to the party with updating my camera with the recent firmware patch. I discovered today much to my disappointment that the faulty electronic shutter is still faulty. 

Working with M lens or SL AF lenses the shutter speed can only reach 1/8000 and then things get clipped. I want to use my Summilux lenses wide open but I cannot do that with camera set on aperture priority. I got home today from another city walk and pulled out the old SL 601 and tested that with an M lens and no problems at all reaching 1/16000 or shutter speeds in between 1/8000 - 1/16000. The only way I can get 1/16000 is to shoot on M and set aperture at 1.4 and then manipulate exposure compensation dial and or shutter dial to achieve correct exposure. Very tricky but thats what I did today. This method only uses 1/16000 the maximum on Electronic shutter and there are no intermediary speeds. 

I tried my friends SL3 while in the city as he had an SL AF lens on his unit and set the electronic shutter with A and again the highest value I could achieve was 1/8000 sec. 

Obviously Leica left this off the to do list with V 1.1.9 and we have to wait for the next firmware!! I don't know what those folks with Noctilux's are doing to achieve their exposures wide open? All I know is I cannot use my Leica lenses in the way they were designed work some five months after the initial launch. I reported the issue to Leica a few weeks ago and received a reply to acknowledge my email but nothing else. I really thought this would be resolved with the recent firmware. 

[Advertisement]

The Leica Q3 is available for pre-order at B&H Photo Video and Adorama

[Simone_DF]

No, it's not that it was left off the to do list with V 1.1.9, software development doesn't work like that. The fix for the electronic shutter was never in scope for V 1.1.9, and that's normal. V 1.1.9 is only a quick hotfix to address the data loss bug.

If there was anything ready for deployment, it may have been included, if not, Leica won't do any extra work to include it in V 1.1.9, because working on addressing another issue brings a certain amount of risk that may delay the hotfix even more.

[Ken Abrahams]

9 minutes ago, Simone_DF said:

No, it's not that it was left off the to do list with V 1.1.9, software development doesn't work like that. The fix for the electronic shutter was never in scope for V 1.1.9, and that's normal. V 1.1.9 is only a quick hotfix to address the data loss bug.

If there was anything ready for deployment, it may have been included, if not, Leica won't do any extra work to include it in V 1.1.9, because working on addressing another issue brings a certain amount of risk that may delay the hotfix even more.

Thanks, I know that is a sensible answer and accept that it will take longer but I didn't receive any response to my logging the "shutter bug" with them and its the usual lack of communication process by Leica. I guess I am annoyed that I have spent $12 K on a camera and it doesn't work properly. The same position some have been in recently with the missing files albeit not as severe an issue in comparison which brings us back to consumer laws and the argument that a large company supplying a product that is faulty for that amount of money. The consumer in these cases with Leica has no power in the equation. 

[Photoworks]

I have learned that they address the issue by priority. Your priority may differ from yours.

I have already reported 16 bugs to Leica for the SL3, I hope they get to them soon.

But when I was reporting a bug on the SL2 for a flash not firing, It took 1.5 years to see that change. This was a bug they carried over from the q2 and other M, and it was already fixed in the others.

I just reported a flash problem on the SL3 where the flash stops being recognized ever so often, making the camera unusable. I hope it gets addressed in less time.

[BernardC]

2 hours ago, Ken Abrahams said:

I didn't receive any response to my logging the "shutter bug" with them and its the usual lack of communication process by Leica.

To be fair to Leica, very few vendors do this. I've only ever seen it in mega-bucks support contracts. Look at it from the vendor's point of view: do you want them to hire someone who's job is to respond to every enhancement request, keeping track of where everything is in the development queue (and which users reported it), or would you rather they spent the money on developers?

They responded to users who reported the file corruption bug, but that had higher priority.

[Ken Abrahams]

49 minutes ago, Photoworks said:

I have learned that they address the issue by priority. Your priority may differ from yours.

I have already reported 16 bugs to Leica for the SL3, I hope they get to them soon.

But when I was reporting a bug on the SL2 for a flash not firing, It took 1.5 years to see that change. This was a bug they carried over from the q2 and other M, and it was already fixed in the others.

I just reported a flash problem on the SL3 where the flash stops being recognized ever so often, making the camera unusable. I hope it gets addressed in less time.

Crikey Jeesh! Thank you for adding more perspective. 16 bugs 🐞 It’s  amazing how such a modern European manufacturer of high end technology can operate in such a way. I am so naive! 🥸🤓😳

[Ken Abrahams]

Advertisement (gone after registration)

4 minutes ago, BernardC said:

To be fair to Leica, very few vendors do this. I've only ever seen it in mega-bucks support contracts. Look at it from the vendor's point of view: do you want them to hire someone who's job is to respond to every enhancement request, keeping track of where everything is in the development queue (and which users reported it), or would you rather they spent the money on developers?

They responded to users who reported the file corruption bug, but that had higher priority.

When you put it like that Bernard, however I do expect proper exchanges and guarantees as a consumer. You’re dam right they should increase their workforce, create better branding and much more service friendly departments. I get it though. They just don’t need to that. 

[Simone_DF]

3 hours ago, Photoworks said:

I have learned that they address the issue by priority. Your priority may differ from yours.

Yes, of course. All companies do. Ken's bug probably is not a priority because 1) it's an edge case and 2) there are various workarounds, from installing a ND filter to setting the camera to Manual instead of Aperture mode

[Simone_DF]

2 hours ago, Ken Abrahams said:

Crikey Jeesh! Thank you for adding more perspective. 16 bugs 🐞 It’s  amazing how such a modern European manufacturer of high end technology can operate in such a way. I am so naive! 🥸🤓😳

16 bugs is nothing. 

Bigger softwares like full scale applications have thousands of bugs in the backlog. But many people don't even notice them, that's the difference.

[Photoworks]

20 minutes ago, Simone_DF said:

But many people don't even notice them, that's the difference.

until there are photos missing, or the other stuff does not work!

[Ken Abrahams]

On 8/1/2024 at 11:32 PM, Simone_DF said:

Yes, of course. All companies do. Ken's bug probably is not a priority because 1) it's an edge case and 2) there are various workarounds, from installing a ND filter to setting the camera to Manual instead of Aperture mode

I was a bit disappointed after reading on the SL3 firmware update discussion that the Shutter 1/16000 issue had been rectified so I was looking forward to using it but alas the info was wrong. I prefer switching to S mode on the SL3 to achieve best exposures at f1.4. M mode is a more complicated process for me. I have 3 stopper ND filters for the 28 and 35 summilux but not for the larger SL lenses I am afraid.  

[hdmesa]

I tested this the other day. While the display will only show up to 1/8000 sec., the camera seems to be using 1/16000 sec. when needed (A mode with adapted lenses on dummy adapter). I took an f/1.2 lens and shot it wide open at noon on a sunny day here in the desert where everything is light colored. No overexposure. I even put the sun directly in the frame, and the image was still not over overexposed. So unless the camera is using ISO 50 without it saying so on screen, it’s likely 1/16000 sec. is actually working.

[Ken Abrahams]

6 hours ago, hdmesa said:

I tested this the other day. While the display will only show up to 1/8000 sec., the camera seems to be using 1/16000 sec. when needed (A mode with adapted lenses on dummy adapter). I took an f/1.2 lens and shot it wide open at noon on a sunny day here in the desert where everything is light colored. No overexposure. I even put the sun directly in the frame, and the image was still not over overexposed. So unless the camera is using ISO 50 without it saying so on screen, it’s likely 1/16000 sec. is actually working.

I went back to screen shot all my overexposed images where the maximum shutter speed was only 1/8000 (instead of up to 1/16000) and using 1.4 and iso 400 but they already in the trash. I will often need such exposure parameters for street and want to attain the beautiful wide open effects from the 28 Summilux lens. The problem has been confirmed by Leica, so I hope that is enough evidence for you? Shooting wide open with some lenses often results in more whites in the form of a "bokeh explosion" and the lens does its best to contain some details. It's a nice effect sometimes to overexpose that central part of an image when you know the lens behaves in such a way.  

Best

Ken 

[hansvons]

3 hours ago, Ken Abrahams said:

I will often need such exposure parameters for street and want to attain the beautiful wide open effects from the 28 Summilux lens.

I know that this issue can be annoying. However, I suggest buying an ND filter as a temporary fix. Having a leeway of 1 stop is a bit tight anyway.

Edit: I read you already have ND filters. That said, Leica is suffering badly from their success and the impossible labour market already in the making before Covid, but now is probably the largest obstacle in Europe's economy and Germany's in particular. I'm sure Leica's management is top-notch, and problem-dodging is not the issue.

Edited August 29, 2024 by hansvons

[Ken Abrahams]

4 minutes ago, hansvons said:

I know that this issue can be annoying. However, I suggest buying an ND filter as a temporary fix. Having a leeway of 1 stop is a bit tight anyway.

What makes you think I haven't done that already Hans? Three steps and a few weeks ahead of you Hans and also an email from Leica outlining the issue and that a fix has been found. I was the one who started the ticket with Leica for this issue. The firmware update is coming soon.  I can also go back to the SL2S or SL2 and I achieve what I need however I prefer shooting the SL3. 

Best

Ken