Indoor flash with daylight balanced film: filters?

[grahamc]

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Hello friends 

I sometimes do gig photography and default to b&w film.   But I'd like to use colour.  So when using flash (let's say a Sf24D) indoors , should I use a filter on the lens, or even the flash  ?

Let's assume normal tungsten light, not fluro

I read that yellow or orange filtration helps balance the light produced by the flash, with the other light in the room (from tungsten).   Unfortunately, I wasn't sure if this means a gel for the flash, or a filter for the lens.  I guess it's probably more likely to be a gel for the flash ? 

Also, sorry if this is a stupid question!   

Thankyou 

Edited June 13, 2024 by grahamc

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[erl]

Several comments for you.

1. Don't use flash indoors for gigs/stage/theatrical stuff. It kills any atmosphere created by stage lighting, and will probably scare the 'natives'.

Use high speed tungsten film, 800iso and large aperture lenses. When I did a lot of this stuff, I used FujiPress 800. It handled various light colours well and pushed to 1600 if pressed.

OTOH, if you insist on using flash for whatever reason, use daylight film as this is what the the flash is matched to. But that is desperate country.

[spydrxx]

Ken Rockwell says the orange filter is a gel for the flash itself when shooting in a tungsten lit room. Back in the day many camera mounted flash mfrs included snap on colored gels for their flash bodies to adjust for different film spectral sensitivities or to approximate ambient light. Personally I never found these to be that good a match.

[grahamc]

25 minutes ago, erl said:

Several comments for you.

1. Don't use flash indoors for gigs/stage/theatrical stuff. It kills any atmosphere created by stage lighting, and will probably scare the 'natives'.

Use high speed tungsten film, 800iso and large aperture lenses. When I did a lot of this stuff, I used FujiPress 800. It handled various light colours well and pushed to 1600 if pressed.

OTOH, if you insist on using flash for whatever reason, use daylight film as this is what the the flash is matched to. But that is desperate country.

Thanks very much.  And yes sorry I should’ve specified it’s not theatre , it’s energetic bands or DJ events in what can sometimes be very dark rooms. So flash essential for the light source but also for the aesthetic which can include some trailing shutter style shots. Here’s one for fun but in black & white 

good to know flashes are daylight balanced. I was thinking of trying a mild yellow if the flash seams a little cool/white though.  

 

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Edited June 13, 2024 by grahamc

[grahamc]

17 minutes ago, spydrxx said:

Ken Rockwell says the orange filter is a gel for the flash itself when shooting in a tungsten lit room. Back in the day many camera mounted flash mfrs included snap on colored gels for their flash bodies to adjust for different film spectral sensitivities or to approximate ambient light. Personally I never found these to be that good a match.

 Thanks. I don’t have any gels unfortunately.  What are your thoughts on using a yellow filter for now to warm up the image (presuming the flags may be a little white)

for now I think it’s either that or do nothing  

[Al Brown]

I love white foreground and orange tungsten background (rare these days)when using SF24. Gives me perception of depth and isolates the subject better.

[grahamc]

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1 minute ago, Al Brown said:

I love white foreground and orange tungsten background (rare these days)when using SF24. Gives me perception of depth and isolates the subject better.

Yes that's cool, I haven't really done any work of this nature on colour film yet.    So maybe nothing required. 

Although his was the other day no filter.  I guess it works, everyone had fun. 

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[grahamc]

I think I’d feel more confident using a warming gel on the flash (which I don’t have).  The effect of a yellow filter on the actual lens it seems could be a bit dramatic 🤔 

[Fotoklaus]

If you use tungsten Film you can use a 85b orange Filter to use a flash and get correct colours. With a daylight Film you can use

a 82a or 82b light blue Filter to get correct colours with tungsten lights.

With different lightsources you have to Filter one source to get equal results. 

Otherwise you will always have the coloured tint in one way.

Edited June 13, 2024 by Fotoklaus

[grahamc]

1 hour ago, Fotoklaus said:

If you use tungsten Film you can use a 85b orange Filter to use a flash and get correct colours. With a daylight Film you can use

a 82a or 82b light blue Filter to get correct colours with tungsten lights.

With different lightsources you have to Filter one source to get equal results. 

Otherwise you will always have the coloured tint in one way.

Thanks very much.   Ok lucky I didn’t use the yellow this evening as seems to have been the opposite to what I would have needed (presumably blue).  I  shot with no filter so will see how it looks