urban-exposure Posted November 22, 2007 Author Share #21 Posted November 22, 2007 Advertisement (gone after registration) Thanks for your comments. You can see from my work that a decent wideangle is essential. I've just learnt though that the Leica 21mm non-aspherical I was considering "only allows RF focusing from 28 inches". This could be quite a problem if I am in peoples faces. Does anyone have any experience of this? The decision on a 21mm lens is proving to be extremely difficult. I am still undecided between the leica non-apherical and the Zeiss Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted November 22, 2007 Posted November 22, 2007 Hi urban-exposure, Take a look here 21mm Lens for M8 - asph, non-asph or Zeiss?. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
Hacker Posted November 22, 2007 Share #22 Posted November 22, 2007 I use the 21mm ASPH and without any external VF, though I have to be careful when cropping close. Changing the Zeiss to bring up the frameline and have it coded requires patience, but not troublesome. I have a ZM 25 coded as a 24 ASPH. Personally, I do not like the feel of the Zeiss compared to the Leica and Hexanon lenses and this lens sits at home. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dseelig Posted November 22, 2007 Share #23 Posted November 22, 2007 Email zeiss get the 28 mount asap When it arrives within 10 days of ordering sent it to John Milch I then had Don Goldberg change the mounts about 3 weeks total apain but worth it to me David Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
robertwright Posted November 22, 2007 Share #24 Posted November 22, 2007 the E60 pre-asph 21mm I have (Canadian) focuses to a little less than .7m like all other Leica lenses. One thing I notice is that the hood cutouts block a portion of the rangefinder patch, there is a dark shadow in there, so focusing is strange with the hood on. Perhaps the later pre-asph is not like this. I managed to code the Zeiss 25, it took a while, I had to email Zeiss and they sent the mount straight away, then you have to do a bank transfer to pay them, so plan for about 75$ at least for the mount. I got John to mill the slots for 25$. Considering I paid 750 at popflash for the lens it is considerably less than the 1400 I paid for the Leica 21 (not coded). (I am considering the 21/25 the same lens for this purpose.) To me it was worth the effort, and not difficult at all to change the mounts, my screws came out with a small amount of effort. The lens focuses accurately after the swap. If you can fix your eyeglasses when the screw falls out you can swap the mount.. There are some things I don't like ergonomically about the zeiss, the focus tab is small, and the focus feel is not the same silky smooth, but it is quite good. Image quality is outstanding. The third stop aperture ring is very smooth, and the third stops are actually very handy. The later pre-asph 21 has an E55 diameter hood, so I don't know about the rangefinder obstruction I cited above for the E60. The advantage here is to the Zeiss and it's E46 mount. I bought the 25/28 hood for the Zeiss, the round one, and it allows a pretty good view of the subject considering. It is metal. I believe you could use the same hood on the 21mm and not buy the 21/25mm. anyone comment on this? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
urban-exposure Posted November 23, 2007 Author Share #25 Posted November 23, 2007 What does the Zeiss lens focus down to? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
doubice Posted November 23, 2007 Share #26 Posted November 23, 2007 What does the Zeiss lens focus down to? James, It is not a question of how close does the Zeiss lens focus, rather "how close does a Leica rangefinder focus"? The answer is ...... 70cm. Some Leica compatible lenses will 'focus' down to 40cm but, will be rangefinder coupled only down to 70cm. The limitation lies with the camera's rangefinder, not the lens. If a lens' distance scale goes let's say to 40cm, you will be guess focusing from 70cm down. Best, Jan Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dseelig Posted November 23, 2007 Share #27 Posted November 23, 2007 Advertisement (gone after registration) If yo ask zeiss they will do a credit card # and save the expense of a wire transfer David Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike prevette Posted November 23, 2007 Share #28 Posted November 23, 2007 I use the Zeiss 21/2.8 uncoded, but filtered all the time. I have never used a sharper 21 in any format or brand. It is a stunning lens. I can't imagine a 15 year old Leica lens is going to beat it. I wouldn't sweat the coding so much. I use a 21/28 finder with it, and find that It works very well. _mike Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
voightL Posted November 23, 2007 Share #29 Posted November 23, 2007 Hi James, I'm wearing glasses & have used 21mm on M8 without VF with no problem. I happened to get an Elmarit 21 asph at a discount yesterday so I'm considering selling my Zeiss Biogon 21mm that has a 28mm mount milled by John Milich and coded for Elmarit 21. Pm me if you are interested. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
urban-exposure Posted November 23, 2007 Author Share #30 Posted November 23, 2007 I think I am edging towards the Zeiss now. Can people just clarify this focussing issue for me. Does the loss of rangefinder coupling occur with all lenses closer than 70cm, or does it differ from lens to lens? How close can the Zeiss be focussed before losing coupling? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnalex141r Posted November 23, 2007 Share #31 Posted November 23, 2007 I think I am edging towards the Zeiss now.Does the loss of rangefinder coupling occur with all lenses closer than 70cm, or does it differ from lens to lens? How close can the Zeiss be focussed before losing coupling? Yes, what happens is that the cam on the lens goes forward for closer focusing. It goes back (towards the "film plane") when focusing towards infinity. The roller on the camera body only comes out so far, so lenses that focus closer than the body allows will still focus, but the rangefinder will not follow. Some (all? I'll have to check) of my lenses fall into this category. The Zeiss will be no different from all other lenses; its the rangefinder mechanism that will stop working after a certain point. (rant mode on) You know, rather than spend $3,000 - $5,000 on Leica lenses, I'm tempted to put that money into a DSLR system that will focus accurately. I was just shown a $800.00 Olympus zoom lens that was much more versatile than anything currently produced for the M8. Sure, I love my M8, but more and more I'm tempted to just get/keep my CV lenses, and not try to make the M8 into more than it is. Anyway, that's todays thought. (rant mode off) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
stephengilbert Posted November 23, 2007 Share #32 Posted November 23, 2007 How close can the Zeiss be focussed before losing coupling? The C-Biogon 21mm "uncouples" just before the .6 meter (c. 2 foot) mark. The lens can be focussed to .5 meter, but the rangefinder window stops changing at .6. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ndjambrose Posted November 23, 2007 Share #33 Posted November 23, 2007 I recently bought the Zeiss 21 2,8. I test drove it alongside the CV Color-Skopar 21mm and the 21mm Elmarit, shooting a small series of each on my M8. I won't claim it was a scientific test, but it was definitely a real world test based on my own shooting style, subject preferences and approach to light and contrast. In my opinion the Zeiss lens is the best of the three. Obviously it beats the CV lens hands-down, but unexpectedly I much preferred it to the Elmarit too. And given that it's substantially cheaper there was no contest. Also, build quality is excellent and IMHO probably better than the Elmarit. I bought the CV 21mm finder. I also tested the Zeiss 21 finder, and the Leica variable wide angle finder. The CV is the brightest, lightest, has the best magnification and most accurate frame lines -- something I consider important, although whether you care about frame lines is down to you. The finder is also pretty accurate on the M8 even allowing for the crop factor. Frankly, it's a lot more accurate than the built in frame lines at any length. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ndjambrose Posted November 23, 2007 Share #34 Posted November 23, 2007 I think I am edging towards the Zeiss now. Can people just clarify this focussing issue for me. Does the loss of rangefinder coupling occur with all lenses closer than 70cm, or does it differ from lens to lens? How close can the Zeiss be focussed before losing coupling? 0.62m, although it doesn't really matter. The DOF on a 21mm lens is so deep that even at max aperture, once you're focused at 0.5 meters everything from 0.5 meters to 0.7 meters is in focus. The rangefinder is redundant at that distance. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
robertwright Posted November 23, 2007 Share #35 Posted November 23, 2007 I think I am edging towards the Zeiss now. Can people just clarify this focussing issue for me. Does the loss of rangefinder coupling occur with all lenses closer than 70cm, or does it differ from lens to lens? How close can the Zeiss be focussed before losing coupling? looking at your site I see why the Zeiss is calling your name. I think after the small hassle of changing the mount is over you will be pleased, mainly because there is no better bang for buck. I shot for a long time uncoded and it was fine, altho that is 25. A 21 will need coding. On the 25mm when I am street shooting I set the hyperfocal to f8 and shoot at f11 and it is essentially focus free. I've not seen flare in this lens either, and it is filtered. Don't know how the 21 will fare. I also think you would like the new Zeiss 18mm (24mm effective) altho it is only an f4. You might be able to get away with the single 25/28mm viewfinder for both. The closer focus ability of the Zeiss even though it is not coupled at that distance can be useful since you can estimate .5 m easily. You can even use it with the rangefinder, just crank the lens over to closest focus, lean in to your subject until you get coincidence in the rangefinder which will be .7m, and then continue moving in until the rangefinder patch is not coincident by a couple millimeters, you will still see it in the patch as "out of focus" going the other way, but you can learn the offset and that will tell you when you get to nearest focus. Not exactly "dual range" but could be useful. Fyi the finish is not up to the standards of Leica, I have scratches and brassing already-it's only 6 months old! Also the mount itself was very rough, it has left marks on the lens mount. Perhaps a little very fine sandpaper when you are swapping the mounts could take the edge off. But then again the M8 finish is not up to Leica standards either, I have a scratch on the casing there too, in a year's use. My M6 which was used from 1984 is wearing thinner but no scratches. I have no idea... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
urban-exposure Posted November 23, 2007 Author Share #36 Posted November 23, 2007 Thanks for everyone's help on this. The decision has been made. I am going to go with the Zeiss 21mm. The changes to the flange etc shouldn't be too much bother. I have ordered my M8 body today and I already ordered the VL 40mm f1.4 earlier in the week to get me started straight away. This will be an interesting experience for me, as I sold my beloved Contax G2 & 21mm Biogon kit over a year ago, and I've never owned a Leica. Exciting times! I am sure I will fare well with the Zeiss until someone (maybe Leica) comes along with a 18mm f2.0 or f2.8 - as that would be the ideal lens for me. Thanks to everyone for their guidance. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patman Posted November 23, 2007 Share #37 Posted November 23, 2007 I have the Zeiss 21mm 2.8 coded and am quite unhappy with it. I dont find it sharp at all. A big disappointment. My 35m Summaron, 50 years old has proved to be much sharper with better contrast and color o more Zeiss glass for me, if it isn't Leitz i don't want it! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan States Posted November 23, 2007 Share #38 Posted November 23, 2007 I have the Zeiss 21mm 2.8 coded and am quite unhappy with it. I dont find it sharp at all. A big disappointment. My 35m Summaron, 50 years old has proved to be much sharper with better contrast and color o more Zeiss glass for me, if it isn't Leitz i don't want it! Then it's broken. Send it for repair. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike prevette Posted November 24, 2007 Share #39 Posted November 24, 2007 Ya, it must be busted. I could shave with Zeiss 21 shots wide open. _mike Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Symeon Posted November 24, 2007 Share #40 Posted November 24, 2007 What about a Super Angulon 21/3.4, it's a great lens. try it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.