TL2 vs Q3 dilemma

[Rac1ngsnak3]

Advertisement (gone after registration)

I have had a TL2 with 11-23 for the last 3 years and the shooting experience has been mixed. I’d say I only get 1 out of 10 good well-exposed and in-focus shots. As the light drops, the amount of acceptable photos pretty much goes to nil. I’ve gotten to the point where I leave the camera ant home and just shoot with my iPhone as it’ll capture at least a fairly reasonable photo more successfully.

While in Japan, I had the opportunity to test a Q3 side-by-side my TL2 and the results were interesting to say the least. Shooting in low light inside the store in P mode, my TL2 was at ISO of 32-50k (23 mm at f/4.5) compared to the Q3 which was in the 300-640 range (it was shooting at f/1.7). AF was also much quicker and accurate with the Q3. I expected the Q3 to be better but if I were to qualify the experience, I’d say the Q3 performed 10x better than my TL2.

I’m a big fan of the TL2 in its design and 24 MP resolution is good enough for me. Would moving to the 23 f/2 (which is allegedly 2.3 stops faster) help things and get me better shots?

Or would it be worth biting the bullet and just go for the Q3 and call it a day?

Would love to hear your thoughts!

[Advertisement]

The Leica Q3 is available for pre-order at B&H Photo Video and Adorama

[frame-it]

19 minutes ago, Rac1ngsnak3 said:

I have had a TL2 with 11-23 for the last 3 years and the shooting experience has been mixed. I’d say I only get 1 out of 10 good well-exposed and in-focus shots. As the light drops, the amount of acceptable photos pretty much goes to nil. I’ve gotten to the point where I leave the camera ant home and just shoot with my iPhone as it’ll capture at least a fairly reasonable photo more successfully.

While in Japan, I had the opportunity to test a Q3 side-by-side my TL2 and the results were interesting to say the least. Shooting in low light inside the store in P mode, my TL2 was at ISO of 32-50k (23 mm at f/4.5) compared to the Q3 which was in the 300-640 range (it was shooting at f/1.7). AF was also much quicker and accurate with the Q3. I expected the Q3 to be better but if I were to qualify the experience, I’d say the Q3 performed 10x better than my TL2.

I’m a big fan of the TL2 in its design and 24 MP resolution is good enough for me. Would moving to the 23 f/2 (which is allegedly 2.3 stops faster) help things and get me better shots?

Or would it be worth biting the bullet and just go for the Q3 and call it a day?

Would love to hear your thoughts!

or get an m adapter and use some nice fast M lenses with manual focus ??

example at night in available light T-701[16mp] click on the image for better resolution>>

T-701+leica 50mm Summilux-M ASPH

 

Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here…

Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members!

Edited September 24, 2023 by frame-it

[LocalHero1953]

Can you tell us actual exposures for comparable shots? Shutter speed, aperture & ISO? 

Reasons the Q3 might handle things better aside from different aperture: image stabilisation (IS), which allows a slower shutter speed in P mode, highlight-weighted exposure metering in the Q3, which reduces the exposure in P mode when there are bright lights around (though you have to increase brightness in post processing to compensate).

I don't doubt that you will get better results with the more modern camera both because of the IS and the better low light performance. But I have used the TL2 after dark in the street (never in P mode), taking care to hold the camera steady. Modern noise-reduction tools will also recover TL2 high-ISO images that just weren't viable a few years ago.

If P mode is your normal way of working, then you are probably better off with the Q3. If you use the exposure metering tools and controls, and modern post processing tools, then you should be able to get excellent results with the TL2. If you (like me) love the TL2 form factor and style (though I no longer have it), then it's worth persisting with learning how to get the best out of it.

I am surprised you are struggling with aperture and autofocus for most shots. The TL2 and 11-23 should be able to easily handle most situations, if not at blindingly fast speed. Are you otherwise an experienced photographer? I wonder if you would gain from going on one of the workshops Leica Akademie occasionally offers to help people get the best out of their cameras.

Edited September 24, 2023 by LocalHero1953

[Le Chef]

I use a CL and 11-23 and have no issues with low light. I typically shoot Aperture Priority or Manual, and do not have issues with focus. I will adjust ISO up to 1600. With new AI tools I might get away with 3200 ISO.

[Rac1ngsnak3]

23 hours ago, LocalHero1953 said:

Can you tell us actual exposures for comparable shots? Shutter speed, aperture & ISO? 

Reasons the Q3 might handle things better aside from different aperture: image stabilisation (IS), which allows a slower shutter speed in P mode, highlight-weighted exposure metering in the Q3, which reduces the exposure in P mode when there are bright lights around (though you have to increase brightness in post processing to compensate).

I don't doubt that you will get better results with the more modern camera both because of the IS and the better low light performance. But I have used the TL2 after dark in the street (never in P mode), taking care to hold the camera steady. Modern noise-reduction tools will also recover TL2 high-ISO images that just weren't viable a few years ago.

If P mode is your normal way of working, then you are probably better off with the Q3. If you use the exposure metering tools and controls, and modern post processing tools, then you should be able to get excellent results with the TL2. If you (like me) love the TL2 form factor and style (though I no longer have it), then it's worth persisting with learning how to get the best out of it.

I am surprised you are struggling with aperture and autofocus for most shots. The TL2 and 11-23 should be able to easily handle most situations, if not at blindingly fast speed. Are you otherwise an experienced photographer? I wonder if you would gain from going on one of the workshops Leica Akademie occasionally offers to help people get the best out of their cameras.

I wouldn’t say I’m an expert but also not a complete novice. I understand the fundamentals of photography. In bright light, the TL2 and 11-23 are stellar. I find once you get into a dimly lit setting, ISO starts ramping up quickly. Unfortunately, I don’t have the actual exposures for the Q3 or have the exact exposure numbers (I’m pretty sure it was shooting wide open at 1/250th). I didn’t want to take up too much of the Leica salesperson’s time since they didn’t have any in stock and there were other customers shopping. Here are the TL2 photos unedited. The first exposure was capped at Auto ISO 6400 and the others were unlimited. Notice that the first exposure is out of focus. The Q3 in similar conditions ISO was at 300-600 and had so much more richness and depth.

Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here…

Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members!

[tommonego@gmail.com]

This is why I have kept the 23, the CL behaves at ISO 800. I am a manual photographer after 50 years with M cameras, I tend to think like I am still using film. With the 23 at f2, most indoor situations at ISO 400 or 800. Like LeChef I find ISO 1600 very useable. I often just carry the 23. Iso ISO has just frustrated me, I do much better setting my own ISO, at least on the CL it is done on the first graphical screen on the menu. Sigma also has a 24 f1.4 in L mount.

Here is an indoor sculpture I believe 1/30 at f4 ISO 800 23 on the CL

Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here…

Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members!

Edited September 25, 2023 by tommonego@gmail.com

[ruskkyle]

Advertisement (gone after registration)

13 hours ago, tommonego@gmail.com said:

Sigma also has a 24 f1.4 in L mount.

And indeed a new 23/1.4 for APS-C which will be cheaper and smaller.

To me, @Rac1ngsnak3, in your first shot it looks like a simple case of the camera not locking onto your subject properly, which can happen in low light. Try manual focus.

[Kim Dahl]

It's hard to say what you should. It depends on many things. Do you have more than 11-23 for your TL2 - other Leica APSC…

I have the TL2 and all the zooms and 35 f. 1.4 AND I just got the Q3.
The Leica Q3 is in a completely different league in terms of image quality in low light.

Ordinary indoor pictures will be much better. AF cannot be compared. Q3 is 10 times better.

If I had to choose between the two systems. I will choose the Q3 any time.
And if you are only going to cover the wide-angle area and not use a telephoto on your TL2, I would choose the Q3 if the finances allow for it. L Mount APSC is over - if you can get your hands on a Q3..