What with this new trend of Canada lenses selling for 5x more than German made lenses

[Viraltrendstoday]

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Hi, 

I'm new to Leica , but having been shopping around lately I stumbled upon an intriguing trend where Canada Midland lenses were selling for significantly more than German . This is contrary to what I have read on this forum from 10 years back where Canada lenses were significantly cheaper than the German made counterparts . Any idea what is contributing to this ? As far as I recall the German made ones are optically finer , right ? 

Edited September 20, 2023 by Viraltrendstoday

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[andybarton]

No. They’re not. 

Midland lenses were just as good as their German counterparts. 

[Jean-Michel]

And here is a list compiled by Walter Mandler of Canadian-designed Leica lenses (via Wikipedia) it is a long list! See:  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Walter_Mandler

I understand that a number of lenses, and some M3s, marked "made in Germany" were in fact made in Midland, Ontario, Canada, bur with a final assembly in Germany to allow for the "made in…" My own M3, marked as made in Germany was put together in Midland.

Ultimately, wether the lenses and cameras were made or assembled in Canada, Portugal or Germany, they all are essentially identical. 

Midland continues to be a hub of very high-end optics: https://www.rtx.com/raytheon/what-we-do/elcan?utm_source=Offline&utm_medium=Print&utm_content=PrecisionOpticsPrint_Brand-Awareness_Print_NA_NA_NA_EN_NA&utm_campaign=RIS_NA_Print_Generic_Other_2023-RIS-Elcan_NA_Products-Services_NA_ELCAN_NA_Customer_Customer-Awareness_Trade-Publication_NA&utm_term=2023-RIS-Elcan

 

Edited September 20, 2023 by Jean-Michel
Typo

[Bronco McBeast]

All I can say is that my 35 summilux pre-asph Canada has muuuuuch more glow wide open than the german ones. Rembrandt on steroids. Quite unique look.

Also, the canada Cron 35 V4 and 50 V4 (tiger paw) have plastic parts inside while, allegedly, the German counterparts do not. 

 

[Greenhilltony]

Have heard that the taste of collectors just shifted from made in Germany to made in Midland. Because the Canada productions are rarer relatively.

[Erato]

From what I experienced, it seems that the contrast is different when I use it for Black and White photography on my M10 Monochrom.

In short, the contrast of Leitz Wetzlar 8e seems a bit higher than ELC 8e. Maybe I was wrong, just for your reference.

Edited September 21, 2023 by Erato

[pippy]

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11 hours ago, Viraltrendstoday said:

..lately I stumbled upon an intriguing trend where Canada Midland lenses were selling for significantly more than German...

Could you post some examples to back this claim? Especially the ones which show the Midland items 'beating' the Wetzlar stuff by a factor of five.

Thanks in advance.

[pedaes]

56 minutes ago, pippy said:

post some examples

The clue may be in the name 'viral trends'.

[adan]

Why high prices for some Canadian lenses?

Because there were quite a few that were ONLY MADE IN CANADA - and happen to be some of the more "characterful" ones. and also occasionally a bit rare (short production lives).

Sure, one can get a Canadian or a German 35mm Summicron v.4, whose production life bridged from Canada 1980-85 to Germany (Solms) 1985-1996.

But that is not so for the earlier 35 Summicrons, esp. v.2/v.3 - they were Canada only (or mostly so), and quite compact.

Same for 90 Summicron v.2 - only made in Canada (1960-80) after the first version. Same for the 28mm Elmarit v.2 and most v.3s. The 21mm f/2.8 pre-ASPH was briefly made in a quite collectible, rare (1000?), virtually "prototype" E49 version, with close-focusing - but only in Canada. The ones made in Germany later were all in the E60 revised mount, made both places, and "common."

(Now, to further complicate things, there were Canadian/Mandler designs that were only ever made in Germany - Tele-Elmar 135s, 50mm Summicron v.3. The latter is not always well-respected compared to the v.4 Canada product (but I love mine), and the Germany-only 135mm TE has always been one of Leitz/Leica's "cheap thrills," since only a few of us ever figured out to use a 135 on a rangefinder.  I'm not sure about the 50 Summilux v.2s - could be both places, or just Germany).

[Bronco McBeast]

I just clicked.

This is not a Canada thing. It’s just that the Original Steel rim, and Summicron 8e V1 BLACK were made in canada. Those lenses are indeed at least 5X more expensive.

[LocalHero1953]

3 hours ago, pedaes said:

The clue may be in the name 'viral trends'.

My thought exactly........

[Bronco McBeast]

7 hours ago, Al Brown said:

You recall falsely. They are the same. It is a dumb snobby myth that German stuff is superior.
Please post some examples you found where Canada lenses outsell German lenses because they are Made in Canada (not because specific lenses exploded in price). I am eager to see the Canadian Summilux 75 beat the German one's price by 5:1...

The 28mm elmarit 9 element might be one.  Considered first Version 1. Also it is redscale (vs yellow for German made) and  is considered among the Black paint family of lenses.

Then, among the Summilux 35 ore asph, the canadian ones are indeed the mkst valuable ones (steel rim). No matter what we say, or think, or know,, in the end it is the canadian one that is the more expensive. 
I’d always favor a german made pre-asph summilux except a steel rim, which I’d favor over them all, and it happens it’s canadian.

Same fir the 8element Summicron, the collector ones are Canadian… And Black.

As for the rest, regular run of the mill lenses , I’d always favor german ones.

Now.., who had the balls to buy the latest Portugal lenses? Let’s see what happens in 2050.

[Anbaric]

18 hours ago, Viraltrendstoday said:

I'm new to Leica , but having been shopping around lately I stumbled upon an intriguing trend where Canada Midland lenses were selling for significantly more than German . This is contrary to what I have read on this forum from 10 years back where Canada lenses were significantly cheaper than the German made counterparts . Any idea what is contributing to this ? As far as I recall the German made ones are optically finer , right ? 

The situation is quite complex, Viraltrendstoday, but there are some particular issues with Canadian lenses that have made them historically cheaper, though in a few cases they have become more expensive recently.

(1) In the wake of the Canada Balsam Crisis of the 1970s, when national stockpiles of optical cement had become exhausted by exports to Japan, Leitz Canada was forced to explore other solutions. For several years, adhesives derived from the sap of the maple tree were substituted, and 'Syrup Summicrons' are now notorious for optical problems as the compound tends to degrade over time. However, these same defects made them wildly attractive to various high-profile influencers on Instagram during lockdown, raising prices considerably.

(2) Large numbers of well-worn lenses were dumped on the secondary market when the Royal Canadian Mounted Police switched to Nikon. This 'Mountie surplus' gear is often in poor condition after decades of hard use by crime fighters on horseback, and some lenses are even believed to have served as improvised ice hockey pucks in games hosted by the RCMP team. However, lenses engraved for the 50th anniversay of the Mounties in 1970 are of interest to collectors.

(3) Like everything else in Canada, Elcan lenses formally belonged to Queen Elizabeth II. While the Queen chose not to exercise her property rights in most circumstances, it is unclear what policy her successor, King Charles III, will choose to follow now he has inherited the country (a recent proclamation by the Palace that Charles well henceforth be known as 'God-Emperor of the Dominions' in Canada has been met by politely raised eyebrows in Ottawa). This has caused some uncertainty about whether these lenses will be legally tradable on the open market in future, initially depressing prices, then raising them as collectors scramble to obtain them while they still can.

Edited September 21, 2023 by Anbaric

[Jeff S]

OP’s first post. New to Leica, yet has read the forum going back 10 years.  Provocative topic, and forum name.  🤔

Jeff

[LocalHero1953]

30 minutes ago, Al Brown said:

We once found a beat-up Syrup Summicron while touring in a Zamboni down the miles of  hockey fields of Northeastern Montreal.

I had one once, but ate it.

[Anbaric]

20 minutes ago, LocalHero1953 said:

I had one once, but ate it.

Was it a pancake lens?

[LocalHero1953]

10 minutes ago, Anbaric said:

Was it a pancake lens?

No - it came from a Safari set and was a bit chewy.

[Ernstk]

Five days on and still no reply from the OP...

Ernst

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[Bronco McBeast]

35 minutes ago, Ernstk said:

Five days on and still no reply from the OP...

Ernst

It’s ok… no need for a witch hunt

[Ernstk]

1 minute ago, Bronco McBeast said:

It’s ok… no need for a witch hunt

And no need for your inane comment. Having raised the question, it's not unreasonable to expect a response from the OP after 5 days