TonyG44 Posted November 15, 2007 Share #1 Posted November 15, 2007 Advertisement (gone after registration) I have spent an awful lot of time comparing, generic epson drivers to stand alone RIPs, GSG, Onyx, Shiraz, Proofmaster Dalmation, etc none of these in my opinion can print 'true' black and whites, other wierd colours creep in, unless you only use the black ink set. The only RIP I have found that can do this is 'Imageprint' made by Colorbyte, which gives me incredible Nuetral black and whites and wonderful tones. Warmer tones can be made adjusting the colour using blacks, midtones and highlights in PS3 keeping the files as RGB Tiffs. I am using the M8 24mm lens Elmarit printing with the Epson 4800 using Ultrachrome inks, on Kodak lustre paper which minimises that metamarism thang (ink on paper tone). The Imageprint Rip has produced some 17 x 22" prints that look like they are from a 5x4" plate camera printed on black and white paper that took hours to do in the darkroom-simply stunning! However I am keen to hear of other quality printing techniques, a continual learning curve Thanks in advance to this fab forum Tony G Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted November 15, 2007 Posted November 15, 2007 Hi TonyG44, Take a look here digital prints from M8. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
zonevt Posted November 15, 2007 Share #2 Posted November 15, 2007 Cone Editions Piezography K7 Carbon Pigment inks and Quad Tone Rip or Studio Print depending on the printer you are using. Information on these products at (coneeditions.com) and Ink Jet Mall (Piezography Black and White Inkjet) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hdrmd Posted November 16, 2007 Share #3 Posted November 16, 2007 I agree. ImagePrint is expensive, but worth it for B&W. DR Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
gmaurizio Posted November 16, 2007 Share #4 Posted November 16, 2007 Maybe you should try Quadtone RIP with UC inks in your 4800. The results with the 3800 and Harman Gloss FB AI (baryta) and Epson Exhibition are, in my opinion, far better than any chemical B&W paper. The cost is only $50. Imageprint on the 3800 cannot produce better B&W prints, although it has more powerful layout capabilities. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris_tribble Posted November 16, 2007 Share #5 Posted November 16, 2007 Maybe you should try Quadtone RIP with UC inks in your 4800. The results with the 3800 and Harman Gloss FB AI (baryta) and Epson Exhibition are, in my opinion, far better than any chemical B&W paper. The cost is only $50. Imageprint on the 3800 cannot produce better B&W prints, although it has more powerful layout capabilities. I second this - the combination of Quadtone RIP and Harmon Gloss on Epson printers is quite amazing. I'm using an Epson 2100 (2200 in the States) and am now getting black and white prints which I can have a neutral as you could wish for, or with very subtle toning, and I'm amazed - as are my clients. For Epson users, QTR has to be the greatest bargain around. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RSL Posted November 17, 2007 Share #6 Posted November 17, 2007 Try making a profile with extended grays with PrintFixPro 2.0. I just ran a very careful comparison between prints on the R800 using Quadtone RIP and then CS3 and a good extended gray profile from PrintFixPro. The PrintFix profile won hands down. When I louped the two prints it was clear that Quadtone RIP seemed much granier because it wasn't producing variable drop sizes while CS3 with the profile was. I just began trying Quadtone RIP so I may have been making some mistake, but at this point I think I'll stick with the profiles. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
gmaurizio Posted November 17, 2007 Share #7 Posted November 17, 2007 Advertisement (gone after registration) Try making a profile with extended grays with PrintFixPro 2.0. I just ran a very careful comparison between prints on the R800 using Quadtone RIP and then CS3 and a good extended gray profile from PrintFixPro. The PrintFix profile won hands down. When I louped the two prints it was clear that Quadtone RIP seemed much granier because it wasn't producing variable drop sizes while CS3 with the profile was. I just began trying Quadtone RIP so I may have been making some mistake, but at this point I think I'll stick with the profiles. QTR for the R800 is an experimental product. It has little support and almost no profiles. It is best employed with the 3800 and up, or at least the R1800. Roy never intended this R800 to be more than just a curiosity. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
etms Posted November 17, 2007 Share #8 Posted November 17, 2007 Question for Chris Tribble I've downloaded Quad Tone RIP and I don't see a printer profile for Harman Gloss FB AI for the Epson 2100. Have you profiled this yourself or is there another source for this profile? Thanks in advance Ed Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack_Flesher Posted November 17, 2007 Share #9 Posted November 17, 2007 I get stunning, traditional silver gelatin looking B&W output, on Harmon FB Gloss from my Epson 3800 using a custom profile and the Pk/full color inks. Cheers, Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RSL Posted November 18, 2007 Share #10 Posted November 18, 2007 QTR for the R800 is an experimental product. It has little support and almost no profiles. It is best employed with the 3800 and up, or at least the R1800. Roy never intended this R800 to be more than just a curiosity. Well, I'll have to try it in the spring on my main Epsons when I get back to my office in Colorado. Interesting that "Roy" doesn't seem to claim that the Quadtone RIP for the R800 is experimental. I do notice that the only manual available for the RIP is badly out of date. In any case I get exceptional B&W results from PrintFixPro 2.0 profiles on all five of my Epsons. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
gmaurizio Posted November 18, 2007 Share #11 Posted November 18, 2007 Question for Chris Tribble I've downloaded Quad Tone RIP and I don't see a printer profile for Harman Gloss FB AI for the Epson 2100. Have you profiled this yourself or is there another source for this profile? Thanks in advance Ed If you have $4 to spare, try the one sold by Booksmart Studio (BooksmartStudio.com) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
scho Posted November 18, 2007 Share #12 Posted November 18, 2007 QTR for the R800 is an experimental product. It has little support and almost no profiles. It is best employed with the 3800 and up, or at least the R1800. Roy never intended this R800 to be more than just a curiosity. I've recently been working with a new tri K approach to B&W printing that Paul Roark developed using the Epson 1800 printer. The 1.5 pl drop size of the 1800 is key to making this approach work. We use 3 channels of either Eboni (MK) or a new, neutral PKN ink from MIS. All 6 inks can be loaded so switching from RC to matte is easy. The inks are driven with special QTR profiles available from Paul's site and the PKN profiles from my download site or the Yahoo QTR forum files section. No color inks are used, no metamerism, neutral, no GD or bronzing, smooth tonal transitions, and archival quality. 3PKN Profiles: http://homepage.mac.com/scho/.Public/R1800_3PKN.zip 3MK Profiles: http://www.paulroark.com/BW-Info/R1800.htm The 3PKN prints on Harman Gloss are really outstanding. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
neils Posted November 18, 2007 Share #13 Posted November 18, 2007 Chris, I also use a 2200 with QTR. Are you using the Photo or Matt black with the Harmon paper? Some of the new FB papers advise using matt ink, some say use gloss. What works for you? Thanks Neil Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TonyG44 Posted November 20, 2007 Author Share #14 Posted November 20, 2007 It seems the esy way to aceive good black and whites is to switch the colours off and only print with the 3 blacks, which would be nice if you have warm papers. The beauty of Imageprint is it seems to make very nuetral BWs with the added advantage of being able to add almost any tone in PS3 really easy and very controlled as (if your set up is calibrated) what you see on the screen in PS3 is what you get on the paper Does Quadtone use all the colours or just the blacks? Tony Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamie Roberts Posted November 20, 2007 Share #15 Posted November 20, 2007 I agree on ImagePrint and the Harmon Gloss--for colour or black and white. You don't *need* IP, though, if like Jack, you can profile the paper yourself, and you're using the k3 inkset. I use a 3800, but for larger printing I'm looking at the newest Epsons... I particularly like the layout and ink-limiting features of the latest ImagePrint, which a profile nor PS will give you. You can still use a custom colour profile with ImagePrint too. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Photoskeptic Posted November 20, 2007 Share #16 Posted November 20, 2007 Several years ago a friend and I compared bw prints done with ImagePrint and QTR. No difference. When I got the 3800 I compared it to the QTR. Again no difference. What does make a difference is paper. A hearty endorsement for the new Harman Gloss FB. I am printing bw from M8 files which easily rivals MF. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
fjmcsu Posted November 20, 2007 Share #17 Posted November 20, 2007 I second the recommendation for PosterPrint/StudioPrint. when it comes to all black/grey piqment printing. I have been using the system for a number of years on an old 7500 Epson (also use color & the RIP on my 7600).Linearization is easy & keeps the system updated as the inks age,etc.I still use the Hahnemuhle products most for matte B & W printing.I will probably convert the 7600 when my 7500 dies & get a newer Epson but till then the E-bay buy of the 7500 years back was finally a good investment! Expense, however, is a factor ! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
norm_snyder Posted November 20, 2007 Share #18 Posted November 20, 2007 As a long time Piezography user, I recently had an opportunity to print some files I had previously printed using Piezography selenium inks on an Epson 9600 w/ K3 epson inks. They appeared to have a trace of metamerism on the semi-gloss paper used, but were otherwise surprisingly good quality. As I am in the process of replacing my [now ancient and tired] CIS equipped Epson 1280, and was considering the Epson 3800, does anyone have a comparison of Piezography and the K3 inkset? Presumably using QTR. Thanks all, for what is, for me, a timely thread. Norm Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bsmith Posted November 21, 2007 Share #19 Posted November 21, 2007 'Imageprint" (Epson 7600, Epson 4000, Fuji 4000II) was one of the biggest waste of money I ever spent. Very questionable improvement over std. Epson drivers in quality and screening. If you need "production " layout capabilities, it might be worth the expense, but unless your selling hundreds of prints per week , save your money ! Also your NEVER through paying COLORBYTE. Even if you don't want the $750-$1500 per printer license updates, you have to upgrade each time APPLE changes operating systems. COLORBYTE forces you to buy an upgrade instead of providing a "patch" for Jaguar-Tiger-Leopard etc. very expensive, and very quirky software. If you have an extra $2500 each year, buy a new printer instead. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hdrmd Posted November 21, 2007 Share #20 Posted November 21, 2007 I have never heard anyone not satisfied with ImagePrint RIP. I have had exceptional results with it, especially with B&W. And, I am old enough to remember developing Tri-X with Acufine, and printing late into the night. Regards. DR Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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