Purchase advice: M11 new vs used

[JPizzzle]

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Hi everyone,

I’m located in the US and am in the market for an m11 in silver, and am debating between used or new. I was offered a new one from an AD shipped for $8050, while I’m seeing used go for about $6700 on private sales to $7500. Ideally, I do want an m11p, but thinking the pricing will not make it worth it. I’m thinking warranty is the biggest factor here. My CC gives me an additional 2 years to the factory warranty if I buy new, but honestly I’ll probably upgrade to the m12 before then or perhaps the m11p if it has IBIS (very much doubt it) or some significant feature behind what the monochrome got (minus sensor change of course). With all this considered does anyone have any advice on what option would make the most sense.

 

TIA

[DadDadDaddyo]

Several times I've had good results with buying Open Box from an authorized dealer. This was how I got my M10M, my M11, and my M11M. 

The M11 became available during the peak period in which folks were worrying about freezes. M10Rs were still available new occasionally, and some folks were trading back their M11s to go with an M10R instead.

A reputable dealer will offer at least a reasonable return period on an Open Box purchase. The prices I got weren't quite a low as a private sale but the confidence level was higher going in. None of my Own Box purchases have had to go back. 

[JPizzzle]

Thanks for sharing your experience. I’ve considered open box from dealers, but the pricing is only about $500 from the new price I got quoted. Thinking it’s prob not worth it over a 6% difference.

[dscdsc]

Buy it used and get insurance on it. I pay around $80/yr to insure my M11. I bought my M11 used with some warranty left but the insurance will cover theft,loss,accidents, or anything else breaking. make sure the insurance is appropriate for your use, if you are a pro then youd need to make sure that it covered.

[JPizzzle]

Just now, dscdsc said:

Buy it used and get insurance on it. I pay around $80/yr to insure my M11. I bought my M11 used with some warranty left but the insurance will cover theft,loss,accidents, or anything else breaking. make sure the insurance is appropriate for your use, if you are a pro then youd need to make sure that it covered.

Interesting suggestion. Who do you get your insurance through or is it a rider on your home/renters? I’m not a pro.

[geesbert]

As nearly every digital M I ever owned had to go to Leica Service I would never buy a current model without decent warranty.  Bad enough that Leica service is extremely slow, slower than any brand I ever used bar Hasselblad (which made me abandon them), they are also indecently expensive. 
I am a pro though and push my cameras quite hard…

[JPizzzle]

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26 minutes ago, geesbert said:

As nearly every digital M I ever owned had to go to Leica Service I would never buy a current model without decent warranty.  Bad enough that Leica service is extremely slow, slower than any brand I ever used bar Hasselblad (which made me abandon them), they are also indecently expensive. 
I am a pro though and push my cameras quite hard…

Thank you! That’s my thinking as well. Wondering though if dsc makes a good point about insurance covering what warranty would cover essentially. Wouldn’t it be the same as warranty if I purchase a no deductible comprehensive insurance (which I would be anyway for fear of theft of damage) on a used body vs buying new and having insurance plus warranty? Not sure if my assumptions on insurance are accurate.

[Jeff S]

Whether new or used, I buy from trustworthy dealers that provide warranty (from dealer and often from Leica) and return policy. I use insurance to cover everything outside of warranty, including theft or loss.  
 

Insurance policies vary greatly by company, by location, by policy and by individual circumstances. Mine is a high end policy with strict underwriting standards and personal qualifications, separate from my home policy but from the same company, also used to cover other collectibles.  Modest premiums, no deductibles, worldwide coverage at full replacement cost.  

But I still buy from reputable dealers only. Good business relationships translate in many ways, sometimes including financial and service benefits.
 

Jeff

[Olaf_ZG]

4 hours ago, Jeff S said:

Whether new or used, I buy from trustworthy dealers that provide warranty (from dealer and often from Leica) and return policy. I use insurance to cover everything outside of warranty, including theft or loss.  
 

Insurance policies vary greatly by company, by location, by policy and by individual circumstances. Mine is a high end policy with strict underwriting standards and personal qualifications, separate from my home policy but from the same company, also used to cover other collectibles.  Modest premiums, no deductibles, worldwide coverage at full replacement cost.  

But I still buy from reputable dealers only. Good business relationships translate in many ways, sometimes including financial and service benefits.
 

Jeff

+1 

[DadDadDaddyo]

I have currently ten Leica bodies. 

A IIIc, a IIIg, 2 M4s, an R8, an R9, an SL2, an M10M, an M11, and an M11M. 

Can we stipulate that a CLA (Cleaning, Lubrication, and Adjustment) is not the same as a repair required as a result of malfunction (just as an oil change is not the same, for example, as an engine rebuild or a transmission replacement)?

If so, to paraphrase previous posts, every single one of my Leica bodies has required no repair service whatsoever. Every single one of them has worked correctly over the entire time I have used them. They've all received CLA maintenance, though perhaps not as frequently as suggested. They have all continued to function, to work well, without complaint. 

I just wanted to offer that as a counterweight, lest anyone think that every single Leica is a repair service disaster waiting to happen. 
 

Edited August 18, 2023 by DadDadDaddyo

[rich_]

I recently purchased a used M11 with an extra battery from a Leica Miami. The camera was in good condition with the Leica factory warranty until mid next year. I saved 2k, gained the battery and swerved the sales tax. It’s performed perfectly and the upgraded features have been very useful to me where my previous M10 almost felt at times like a sidestep from the 240. 

[dscdsc]

13 hours ago, rich_ said:

I recently purchased a used M11 with an extra battery from a Leica Miami. The camera was in good condition with the Leica factory warranty until mid next year. I saved 2k, gained the battery and swerved the sales tax. It’s performed perfectly and the upgraded features have been very useful to me where my previous M10 almost felt at times like a sidestep from the 240. 

how did you save on the sales tax?

[JPizzzle]

On 8/18/2023 at 10:24 AM, Jeff S said:

Whether new or used, I buy from trustworthy dealers that provide warranty (from dealer and often from Leica) and return policy. I use insurance to cover everything outside of warranty, including theft or loss.  
 

Insurance policies vary greatly by company, by location, by policy and by individual circumstances. Mine is a high end policy with strict underwriting standards and personal qualifications, separate from my home policy but from the same company, also used to cover other collectibles.  Modest premiums, no deductibles, worldwide coverage at full replacement cost.  

But I still buy from reputable dealers only. Good business relationships translate in many ways, sometimes including financial and service benefits.
 

Jeff

Thanks Jeff. That puts in perspective and makes sense. Appreciate your advice!

[JPizzzle]

4 hours ago, dscdsc said:

how did you save on the sales tax?

Dealer is out of state. 

[JPizzzle]

Thanks everyone for the advice. Ended up going with a new m11 from an EU dealer. Saving a good amount with the current rates. Hopefully I won’t get beat up on import fees to the US but doesn’t sound like I would from what I’m reading. Worth rolling the dice though. 
 

Cant wait to start shooting with it!

[Warton]

53 minutes ago, JPizzzle said:

Thanks everyone for the advice. Ended up going with a new m11 from an EU dealer. Saving a good amount with the current rates. Hopefully I won’t get beat up on import fees to the US but doesn’t sound like I would from what I’m reading. Worth rolling the dice though. 
 

Cant wait to start shooting with it!

In this world nowhere is cheaper than Hongkong when buying a Leica M. You can get a M11 brand new for less than US$7000 shipped and taxed if any.

In Europe you would be lucky to get it for less than EUR7000 before VAT

Edited August 20, 2023 by Warton

[hdmesa]

23 hours ago, Warton said:

In this world nowhere is cheaper than Hongkong when buying a Leica M. You can get a M11 brand new for less than US$7000 shipped and taxed if any.

In Europe you would be lucky to get it for less than EUR7000 before VAT

Given Leica's track record with the M11, I wouldn't personally feel comfortable buying one from overseas even to save $2K. I would want to have an authorized dealer who could make a fast exchange happen for me if I needed it or handle sending it off for repair down the line. A $7K M11 that freezes up isn't worth any money at all to me.

[Jeff S]

On 8/20/2023 at 6:53 PM, JPizzzle said:

Thanks Jeff. That puts in perspective and makes sense. Appreciate your advice!

Buying overseas wasn’t part of it. 😉

Jeff

[JPizzzle]

4 minutes ago, Jeff S said:

Buying overseas wasn’t part of it. 😉

Jeff

Purchased from an authorized dealer w/full warranty at a great price 🙂.

Edited August 22, 2023 by JPizzzle

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Hallo,

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[Jeff S]

13 minutes ago, JPizzzle said:

Purchased from an authorized dealer w/full warranty at a great price 🙂.

Still not my practice (nor being an early adopter for major model changes). But lots of approaches and choices.
 

Jeff