Why Is There A QC Issue As Of Recent Years?

[maxfairclough]

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15 hours ago, logan2z said:

I guess I've been lucky.  I've purchased quite a few pieces of Leica gear over the last five or so years and have never encountered any QC-related issues.  It started with an M-A in 2017 that has been flawless.  More recently, I've purchased a Summicron 50mm, a Summicron 35mm, an Elmarit 28mm, and a Super Elmar 21mm, all brand new.  I also purchased a Summarit 35mm/2.4 and 75mm/2.4 a few years back.  All of these arrived without issue and continue that way to this day.  The only issue I've had with Leica QC was with an M2 I purchased from a Leica dealer that had just returned from a full overhaul at Wetzlar and needed to go back to fix an issue with the lens mount - apparently introduced during servicing.  This took much longer than I expected (3+ months). 

Despite the marketing-speak, there's no such thing as 'Mechanical Perfection'.  Leica should do themselves a favor and drop phrases like that from their vocabulary, they just come back to haunt them during conversations like this.  In realty, every company has QC issues, despite the cost of their products.  Go on a Ferrari forum and see what people are saying about their brand new cars  

This is cliche, but what really has an impact on customer satisfaction is how a company deals with issues.  IMO, Leica really needs to work on that area of their business.  If someone buys a brand new camera or lens (or takes delivery of a camera that has just been serviced at the factory) and there is an issue with it, it should be fixed with the highest priority.  If that's not possible with the company's current repair staff, then that needs to be addressed.  Lack of training, difficulty hiring, etc. is not the customer's problem.  I firmly believe that if the repair times were more reasonable then people would be far less likely to complain. 

I certainly wouldn't be thrilled if my $5K M-A or MP (or my $9K M11) was delivered with an issue, but if the company communicated repair status well and did their best to return the faulty item in a few weeks rather than several months then that would go a long way to softening the blow.

Well said. 

And as someone else said, these issues will make others feel very reluctant and off-putting when it comes to future products. I would certainly feel that way towards any new products that Leica will release as the last few have been very poor.

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[Huss]

20 hours ago, davidmknoble said:

There are a lot of folks listing a lot of problems here. I am curious if any have actually experienced a problem with the purchase of a new Leica item?

I have been purchasing Leica gear since 2000 and I have only had one problem.  I purchased a Leica M/A black chrome new, and the rangefinder was not properly aligned. I sent it back and in 30 days it was properly adjusted and never had another problem.

I still use a Leica IIIC sharkskin (1940) and an M3 (1965?) neither of which have had any issues in 10 years after a simple CLA.  My lenses all focus properly, f/stops work.  The fact that I use cameras that are 60-80 years old is pretty astounding.  I still use a Leica R8 and R9 with the digital back (imacon sensor, never needed replaced).  My S system and lenses have stood up to rain, snow, ice, and sand and still don’t need a CLA.

I understand there are some announced quality issues and Leica has had issues in the past - but they always offer a public fix and typically don’t charge.  There are also always isolated cases that don’t sound like they should, but most companies have that issue.

So, just curious about anyone purchasing new equipment with a problem and how it got resolved.  Used equipment doesn’t count unless you have firsthand knowledge of how it was kept and treated.

Just my thoughts…

The two Leica items I bought new - M-E (M9) and 2022 M6.  The M-E suffered the notorious sensor failure within a few months, and took months to be repaired with a replaced sensor that also failed in the same way.

The M6 was delivered scratching film.  You can read about that saga in the film scratching thread.  Basically brand new camera took months and numerous attempts to fix.

No issues w the two Leica lenses I bought new - 50 Lux Asph and 28 Elmarit Asph.  All my other Leica gear was bought used.

[adan]

Defects in new Leica items?

Original M8 (2006) - but that was by choice. I was just about to receive my first M8 (and one of the first in the US) in Nov. 2006, when they were all recalled for electronics problems (green lines and blobs, and "waterfall" effects on images if the shutter button was pushed during power-up/wakeup - anyone remember those? ).

I cajoled and pleaded with my local Leica rep to call in some favors, and have Leica USA swipe a "defective" M8 right off the shipping pallet going back to Germany for the recall.

Which she did. I used it for 6 months "as was," and got some very nice pictures by simply avoiding those things that triggered the problems (shooting too soon; letting bright lights fall on the edges of the frame). Eventually sent it in for warranty repair once I got a second M8.

That's about it, except for the eventual appearance (7 years after purchase) of the M9s' sensor corrosion.

I've never bought new Leica lenses at any time (well, my 21 Elmarit was new-old stock at dealer cost, bought four years after production ceased). So can't comment on that.

[LocalHero1953]

No defects in my new Leica cameras (M9, TL2, CL, SL, SL2, SL2-S, Q2, MP). Just one in a lens: Apo-Summicon-M 90 wouldn't reach infinity and was recalibrated.

Watch the Q3 threads for evidence that those without problems don't normally post, thereby skewing 'social media statistics'. Since the latest f/w, the number of posts about freezes has dropped dramatically (yes, there are still some).

[newtoleica]

I never buy Leica new. Too expensive. My well-used and recently serviced items that I have bought (M7, M10-P, 24 Elmarit ASPH, 35 lux ASPH pre-FLE, 50 Lux ASPH, 90 Elmarit) all work fine. Leica is one of those quality brands I'm quite happy to buy well-used.

[f8low]

The issue of the 6 month waiting time is an interesting one. Could it be that the number of Leica lenses and cameras *actively* used is significantly higher than, say, a few years ago? If yes, it's not primarily(!) a quality problem that we are looking at - it's just the law of large numbers. Every product has a small failure probability. 

If the number of film Ms *in use* is somewhat proportional to film sales, used film camera prices or interest in film on YouTube, that number surely went up over the last years. If we additionally assume that digital M, Q and SL cameras that go to customer service also add to some bottlenecks in Wetzlar (we don't need to assume that it's the same people who handle an M3 and a Q) it's maybe plausible? 

What's funny here is that there is a bit of a boomerang aspect to the above hypothesis. Leica often leverages the 'M heritage' playing on reliability and backwards compatibility of traditional M cameras when marketing their digital cameras. Now, if this marketing works well, everyone purchasing an M/Q/SL will expect nothing but perfection in all respects and resort to customer service otherwise, no?

 

Edited August 17, 2023 by rho

[Matlock]

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Problems are not confined to Leica (in spite of what some contributors to this forum may think). Nikon issued an advisory on 23rd June regarding lens mount problems on some Z8 models (problem with lens not rotating to the lock position). On 7th August Nikon issued a further advisory regarding strap eyelets becoming loose or even falling off. It happens.

[Huss]

14 hours ago, Matlock said:

Problems are not confined to Leica (in spite of what some contributors to this forum may think). Nikon issued an advisory on 23rd June regarding lens mount problems on some Z8 models (problem with lens not rotating to the lock position). On 7th August Nikon issued a further advisory regarding strap eyelets becoming loose or even falling off. It happens.

But there are some huge differences here:

1.  Nikon issued an advisory.  Leica has not for the film scratchers or the defective 35 FLEs etc

2. Nikon created a site so you can enter your serial # and see if your camera is affected.  Leica has not even officially acknowledged any problems.   Leica's announcement in 35MMC about the film scratching M6s was only because 35MMC contacted them and asked them for comment.

3. Nikon is repairing and returning cameras in a week!  Leica?  Months and months and months.

"It" does happen.  How "it" is handled is what matters.  Leica has repeatedly demonstrated it doesn't care.