Lockhart's List

[Guest]

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Maybe this little report is interesting for the more obsessive of you here.

[Anbaric]

'Lockhart’s List shares some database information for free, but unlocking full access requires a subscription that costs 14.99 euros per month (about $16.50) for individuals and 29.99 euros per month (about $33) for those who support the operations of a registered business. The company plans to raise rates after the first 200 sign-ups.'

Hmm...

Might be interesting to a dealer, but established traders have a very good idea of what these things are worth. He claims to have updated the serial number data, but doesn't mention whether he's gone back to the original production records. If not, he must be relying on the existing lists like everyone else. The rest of it seems to be aggregating serial numbers and batches with auction images and prices. I suppose it might catch some rarity that a less experienced dealer or collector would not otherwise realise was rare.

[Cameraville]

Hi @Anbaric, the updates serial number data does not mean that an 'updated list' has been given or copied from somewhere. It means that the records have been manually modified and expanded from about 2 years of research and observations (which is ongoing). So in general, the list differs from any other source. 60% of serial numbers have images of a camera from a matching production batch - so the user can see with their own eyes which database is correct when they differ. It is not perfect of course, though it's the most accurate source of information currently. One very small example would be all sources claiming Leica R5 for a given serial number range, while my data has some records of M4-2 and MD-2 in that "R5 range" with images of cameras from those batches with the serial numbers visible. If you have any more questions about the data feel free to ask.

[willeica]

The only way to sell a subscription model like this is to give samples. I have a substantial collection of vintage Leicas and I have written many articles about them. I can get all of the information I need for free from the Leica Archive in Wetzlar. I also participate in and follow auctions and have written articles about them. Someone said this might appeal to the 'trade' but I know many Leica dealers and auctioneers, including all of the ones listed in the Petpixel article, and they are very well informed already about models, histories and values. It is hard to see who this is for, but I presume the listed auctions are already customers for this. If it has value, this needs to be sold in a better way to collectors generally.

William 

[Anbaric]

On 8/20/2023 at 8:34 AM, Cameraville said:

Hi @Anbaric, the updates serial number data does not mean that an 'updated list' has been given or copied from somewhere. It means that the records have been manually modified and expanded from about 2 years of research and observations (which is ongoing). So in general, the list differs from any other source. 60% of serial numbers have images of a camera from a matching production batch - so the user can see with their own eyes which database is correct when they differ. It is not perfect of course, though it's the most accurate source of information currently. One very small example would be all sources claiming Leica R5 for a given serial number range, while my data has some records of M4-2 and MD-2 in that "R5 range" with images of cameras from those batches with the serial numbers visible. If you have any more questions about the data feel free to ask.

Thanks for explaining, and good luck with your business venture. I take your point about discrepancies between the publicly available databases (what proportion of serial numbers do you think are affected?) and out of sequence cameras, although of course for any M or R series model, identification isn't difficult as Leica has helpfully engraved the name on the camera. For the LTM bodies, we can easily tell by the features, except for conversions from earlier models. But that's exactly the sort of situation where the production records might be helpful while current appearance (as in an auction photo) could be misleading. I'm sure many converted cameras have been sold simply as the the model they were converted to, or the nearest equivalent. If a camera visually identified as a 'III' is recorded as a 'II' in one of the usual lists, does that mean the list is incorrect, or that the camera was upgraded? Only a query to the Leica Archive or perhaps a close examination of specific features would help clarify this. The same thing applies to cameras with unusual finishes (unrecorded original finish or repaint?), special editions (Luxus or after-market gold plating?), and cameras with military markings etc. (from a genuine military contract batch or just a spurious engraving added later?).

Apart from rarities like these, few things affect value significantly unless the camera is from a very early or otherwise unusual batch, like the 'first IIId' that turned up here a while back (in this case @willeica was able to put the owner in touch with an acknowledged expert). Otherwise, the serial number is just a means of dating the camera and condition is much more important, which I guess auction records might help demonstrate. One thing that might be interesting would be to use your database to follow the evolution of (especially earlier) models with respect to serial number as minor features were changed over time.