M10-D + Voigtlander 40mm Heliar + Visoflex == blank screen

[jslabovitz]

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Here's a strange one...

I use an M10-D with a Summaron-M 28mm (in black) and a Visoflex 020. This setup works well.

I ordered a Voigtlander 40mm/f2.8 Heliar in black paint as a companion lens.

However, once I mount the the Heliar, the Visoflex display is either completely blank or displays a message saying 'No lens mounted!' The camera does seem to be happy to take a shot.

I suspect this has something to do with the fact that not only is there no 6-bit lens coding on the Heliar, the rear lens flange is *completely* black, versus the typical chrome/steel used on most lenses. I reckon that the code is being interpreted as six black dots (111111), which doesn't seem to map to any known lens from my quick research.

Has anyone else used this particular combination of gear and made it work?

If not, then sadly I think this is going to have to go back for a refund...

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[jslabovitz]

(Replying to my own post...)

I see there's a mention of a related issue in the dedicated thread for this lens:

...but because my camera is an M10-D without a menu function, I can't turn off lens detection, and hence can't follow this suggestion. It appears the "solution" is to replace the M-mount version with an LTM version, and use an LTM/M adapter which is chrome and is coded either 35mm or 50mm.

[AndreasG]

Try to place a small piece of thin Aluminum foil between lens flange and housing to simulate "000000", if it works, next step would be to remove the black coating in the detection area of the flange.

[jslabovitz]

14 minutes ago, AndreasG said:

Try to place a small piece of thin Aluminum foil between lens flange and housing to simulate "000000", if it works, next step would be to remove the black coating in the detection area of the flange.

Thanks so much for the quick response! Your trick did indeed work — now the Visoflex shows an image, and a lens of "R-Adapter", which I've seen before with an unrecognized lens.

Given that I just purchased this, I don't think I'll be attempting to remove the coating. More likely it will go back and I will then decide whether I want to try again with the LTM version plus an appropriate adapter.

[AndreasG]

vor 2 Stunden schrieb jslabovitz:

LTM version plus an appropriate adapter

Caveat: Some LTM adapters have a cut out at the sensor location, look for one without the cut out, otherwise it will fail.

[PhoToad]

The silver version of the heliar should work with the M10-D (i.e. no need to go for the LTM).

[ramarren]

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On 6/23/2023 at 10:18 PM, jslabovitz said:

Here's a strange one...

I use an M10-D with a Summaron-M 28mm (in black) and a Visoflex 020. This setup works well.

I ordered a Voigtlander 40mm/f2.8 Heliar in black paint as a companion lens.

However, once I mount the the Heliar, the Visoflex display is either completely blank or displays a message saying 'No lens mounted!' The camera does seem to be happy to take a shot.

I suspect this has something to do with the fact that not only is there no 6-bit lens coding on the Heliar, the rear lens flange is *completely* black, versus the typical chrome/steel used on most lenses. I reckon that the code is being interpreted as six black dots (111111), which doesn't seem to map to any known lens from my quick research.

Has anyone else used this particular combination of gear and made it work?

If not, then sadly I think this is going to have to go back for a refund...

Can't you just turn off "Lens Detection" so that the camera ignores the lens identification code gizmo when you're using that lens?

G

Edited July 2, 2023 by ramarren

[jslabovitz]

On 7/2/2023 at 7:46 AM, ramarren said:

Can't you just turn off "Lens Detection" so that the camera ignores the lens identification code gizmo when you're using that lens?

Perhaps that's an option on the M10, but apparently not on the M10-D. I looked through the manual, and there's no way on the camera itself to access this setting (unsurprisingly, given the minimalism of the D). I also connected through the Fotos app, and I can't see anything in the Camera Settings that would relate. So it seems to me this is not a function of the M10-D.

Even if it was, I wouldn't want to lose the ID function for the other lenses I use quite reliably which either have factory-set codes or ones on which I've fitted custom flanges with codes.

[ramarren]

Interesting. I have the Lens Detection command set at the top of my Favorites screen on both the M10-M and M10-R so that I can disable it whenever I'm using an uncoded lens (like the MS Optics 24/2 or M-Rokkor 90/4) and switch it back on for lenses that are coded or that I have manual codes I know work. Very odd to hear that the M10-D doesn't support the function! 

G

[jslabovitz]

19 hours ago, ramarren said:

Very odd to hear that the M10-D doesn't support the function! 

Not so odd if you consider that the D has no screen, and hence no menus and no functions!

There is a single multifunction button on the top, and a focus button on the front, both of which do very little unless you have a Visoflex 020 mounted — and neither allows changing the lens profile setting.

Not that I'm complaining, save this lens-coding issue — I continue to adore the M10-D's minimalism.

[rramesh]

Doesn't the lens have a coding groove, and if so, can you not paint the 6-bit code (black and white bars)?

 

Edited July 23, 2023 by rramesh

[jslabovitz]

On 7/22/2023 at 5:24 PM, rramesh said:

Doesn't the lens have a coding groove, and if so, can you not paint the 6-bit code (black and white bars)?

I suppose someone could try if they *really* wanted this lens to work.

But I bought the lens new and there's no way I'm going to paint in some unreliable codes on a brand-new lens that I may yet return, just to see if I'd want to keep it. (Indeed, I ended up returning the lens.)

As mentioned above, the best solution seems to buy the black LTM version and a properly coded LTM-M adapter flange. Or buy the chrome M version and deal with an uncoded lens.

[graphlex]

I’ve used uncoded lenses (Leica and Zeiss) on the M10D without this problem.

[jslabovitz]

5 minutes ago, graphlex said:

I’ve used uncoded lenses (Leica and Zeiss) on the M10D without this problem.

Yes, so have I, with general success — as long as the rear flange is silver or chrome!

The problem here is that I bought the all-black version of the lens, and the flange is entirely black. That seems to cause the sensor to read the lens code as an error, instead of the usual 'unknown lens' status.

If I put my programmer's hat on, I'd say it's reading 000000 (silver/white) as 'unknown lens,' but 111111 (black) as 'error.' (Maybe I'm flipping 0/1, but you get the point.)

[Steve Peck]

I also could not get live view on my M10R. I put some foil over the 6-bit sensor as suggested in one of the posts and the I had live view and no Lens error messages. I simply sanded off a bit of the black paint in the correct position as shown in the image, and the problem was solved permanently. Kind of an oversight by Voigtlander, but those designers made one pretty lens, so they get a pass. 

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