100 years Null-Serie

[Roland Zwiers]

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The rotating cover of the Ur-Leica lens must have complicated the mounting of a yellow filter

So, I am curious how Oskar Barnack solved the yellow-filter problem.
Could he have mounted the filter behind the lens?
Can the lens on the Ur-Leica be easily removed.
This requires further research.

One can see that the mounting problem no longer existed with the Handmuster/ Kisselbach camera of 1920 and with the Null-Serie of 1923.
In this way Oskar Barnack anticipated the use of yellow filters for the increasingly orthochromatic 35mm cine negative films.

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[Roland Zwiers]

In the period 1915-1918 Oskar Barnack may also have used the Agfa Fliegerfilm for colour-correct results

Max Berek (1948) refers to this.
For aerial reconnaissance photography fine grain was important, but equally important was sensitivity to colour.
So, if Oskar Barnack could access remnants of the Agfa Fliegerfilm, he would certainly have used these for experimenting with colour-correct results.
Good candidates are several pictures that Oskar Barnack took in 1917 in the Black Forest!
The next slide shows two examples that are well-known in Leica literature.
I hope that the Leitz Archive in Wetzlar will allow me to study these negatives/ pictures in greater detail. 

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[Roland Zwiers]

If Oskar Barnack already experimented with colour in 1914, why would he not have given Ernst Leitz II similar films for his June 1914 visit to the USA?

This is relatively easy to explain.
The increased sensitivity to colour would last only one or two days.
So this was no option for a journey that would last several weeks.
Note that Max Berek (1948) also mentions the poor shelve life of the wartime Fliegerfilm.

To be continued.

Roland

[willeica]

5 hours ago, Roland Zwiers said:

If Oskar Barnack already experimented with colour in 1914, why would he not have given Ernst Leitz II similar films for his June 1914 visit to the USA?

This is relatively easy to explain.
The increased sensitivity to colour would last only one or two days.
So this was no option for a journey that would last several weeks.
Note that Max Berek (1948) also mentions the poor shelve life of the wartime Fliegerfilm.

To be continued.

Roland

This point about treated film and long journeys is fairly self evident and, also, looking at those images, and in particular the skies, it would seem that no yellow filter was used. Barnack was likely to have given his boss simplified instructions for his trip to the US with a new and untried prototype camera. That said, some of the images are very good in all of the circumstances. There is a lot of other non technical research possible with these images, of course.

Roland, you have posted a lot of other material about colour sensitivity, but, of course, these issues were not unique to Leitz or even 35mm during this period. Some months ago I put you in touch with Mark Osterman who was formerly with the Eastman Museum and who is currently involved with testing blue sensitive films in an early Leica. He is also in touch with the people in Wetzlar about his findings in this regard. Did you follow up with him about the issue of colour sensitivity? He should certainly know about the various issues given his previous experience.

William

 

 

[Roland Zwiers]

William,

Thank you for your reply.
Yes, I am in contact with Mark Osterman.
He is experimenting with colour-blind film.
So comparable to the film that Ernst Leitz II used on his June 1914 visit to the USA.

These experiments are very interesting as it shows what results can be obtained with colour-blind emulsions.
This helps me to analyse black-and-white pictures from the 1910s and 1920s in general.
Also those made by Oskar Barnack.

My working hypothesis on Oskar Barnack's experiments with colour-sensitive material does not overlap with Mark Osterman's approach.
So here I am on my own.
And my work-in-progess is new research that you have not been able to read in already published Leica literature.

 

 

 

 

    

 

 

 

 

[Roland Zwiers]

William,

You write:

"You have posted a lot of other material about colour sensitivity, but, of course, these issues were not unique to Leitz or even 35mm during this period"

Here I have to disagree.
To a large extent the issue of colour was specific for 35mm cine negative film in the 1900s, 1910s and even part of the 1920s!
To a large extent the issue of colour was a Leica-specific problem: miniature cameras for dry plates could use colour sensitive material already in the 1890s
 

A Hollywood paradigm shift
Up to the 1920s film studios used electric arc lamps that were an ideal complement to the ordinary 35mm colour-blind film.
Arc lamps were very rich in violet and blue and so made optimal use of the natural dominance of violet and blue.
Of course, the Hollywood-ecosystem had to adapt to this.
With colour-blind film and arc lamps one would not use red lipstick!
Make-up had to be in unnatural colours as well.

Kodak researcher Mees observes that this abruptly changed in the course of the 1920s with the arrival of  highly orthochromatic and panchromatic films.
From then on studio lights changed to tungsten, as these lamps were relatively rich in yellow and red.
This led to a paradigm shift and a new technological ecosystem.
Highly red sensitive cine negative film would even become too sensitive to red.
Red lips would become too pale.
So the 35mm Hollywood-ecosystem had to adapt to this.

Note that this 35mm Hollywood paradigm shift was occurring around the same time that Ernst Leitz II had to make his go-no go decision.
But I have not seen a reference to this in post-war Leica literature.

You underestimate the technological bottlenecks for Leica photography in the early period
Film problems were Leica-specific for the very reason that a 24x36mm negative is much smaller than, say 6x6cm.
When the Rolleiflex arrived on the scene in 1929 it not only benefitted from the larger negative size, but also from the fact that since 1924 film emulsions had much improved.
So on arrival, the Rolleiflex was immediately ready for professional use.
For the Leica, in March 1925 this was not the case.
The first Leica reviewers were already impressed that with a 24x36mm negative one could make a high quality enlargement up to postcard size.
Post-1925 literature by Curt Emmermann, Fritz Vith, Dr Paul Wolff shows that the technological border for Leica photography shifted step by step.
Very fine-grained emulsions only arrived at the end of 1926.
So 1,5 years after the introduction of the Leica.

Colour-sensitivity was much easier for plates than for (35mm) film
You also overlook that colour-sentitivity was much more of a problem for celluloid-based film than for glass-based dry plates.
This had to do with the chemical instability of the film base.
On top of that it was not well understood that the gelatine had to be chemically neutral as well.
In practise, the chemical dyes that were necessary for colour-sensitivity interacted with chemical impurities in the gelatine and the celluloid film base.
Kodak solved the filmbase problem around 1920-1921, German procucers around 1924-1925.

Glass-based dry plates had similar problems, but not to the same extent.
So already in the 1890s one could buy highly colour-sensitive dry plates for miniature cameras (4,5x6cm) and for the 4x4cm French miniature stereo cameras.
As soon as the shelve life of dry plates could be prolonged to several months, Perutz could even export such plates to the USA.
So can conclude that miniature cameras for dry plates could already use colour-correct emulsions in the 1890s.
Shortly after 1907, with the arrival of the French auochrome plate, this even applied to photography in colour!
This shows again that the issue of colour was to a large extent a Leica-specific problem.

[Interestingly, in the 1930s the Leica would become a pioneer for photography in colour.
The new colour slide films by Kodak and Agfa were initially only available for 35mm film.
But this belongs to another era.]    

The development of the Leica cannot be understood without knowledge of the Leica-specific bottlenecks with 35mm film
It is unfortunate that this subject has received so little attention in post-war Leica literature.
So I hope you that will appreciate the added value of my research.

Roland

[Carlos cruz]

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On 7/20/2025 at 12:34 PM, Roland Zwiers said:

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Really interesting, the shape of film chamber part of camera has all the similarities shared with later leica. The form implies that it probably was loaded with a roll of film (before seeing this picture I imagined it was used with pre cut film and allowed single shots) it probably had a mechanism to advance with precision. I believe the round thingy on top was used to advance.
 The other bit I find interesting is a cold shoe on the far left (or at least I believe it’s a cold shoe) hard to tell from the picture. The panning mechanism has all the looks of prototype. I wonder how panning was synchronised with shutter(I suspect it was equipped with leaf shutter and probably operated correctly with one shutter speed). I want to see the shutter button in the protruding squarish thingy just where it is now, but can’t be ascertained just looking at the picture
As crude as it looks it was a major step to the future leica, the form, the advance knob on the right, ?possible viewfinder on the left. Remembering that he experimented with different aspect ratios means that film gates and pressure plates has already been in the works. It all shows he knew the basics of movie cameras operation and was adapting crucial elements. Probably idea for film cartridges has already started developing. And it’s only April 1912 impressive. 
 

P.S. I’ll allow myself to share the picture into coldshoe origins thread

Edited July 22 by Carlos cruz

[willeica]

On 7/22/2025 at 5:06 PM, Carlos cruz said:

Really interesting, the shape of film chamber part of camera has all the similarities shared with later leica. The form implies that it probably was loaded with a roll of film (before seeing this picture I imagined it was used with pre cut film and allowed single shots) it probably had a mechanism to advance with precision. I believe the round thingy on top was used to advance.
 The other bit I find interesting is a cold shoe on the far left (or at least I believe it’s a cold shoe) hard to tell from the picture. The panning mechanism has all the looks of prototype. I wonder how panning was synchronised with shutter(I suspect it was equipped with leaf shutter and probably operated correctly with one shutter speed). I want to see the shutter button in the protruding squarish thingy just where it is now, but can’t be ascertained just looking at the picture
As crude as it looks it was a major step to the future leica, the form, the advance knob on the right, ?possible viewfinder on the left. Remembering that he experimented with different aspect ratios means that film gates and pressure plates has already been in the works. It all shows he knew the basics of movie cameras operation and was adapting crucial elements. Probably idea for film cartridges has already started developing. And it’s only April 1912 impressive. 
 

P.S. I’ll allow myself to share the picture into coldshoe origins thread

I posted this on the other thread. It is an image taken with this camera. We would need to see the camera in order to answer your questions. 

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William 

[Roland Zwiers]

Carlos, William,

 

Recently I acquired the book, published in 2008, by Hans-Günter Kisselbach on Oskar Barnack’s Handmuster camera.
This book is much richer in scope and content than the title suggests.
At this point I can only show you an additional picture of the panorama camera.
As far as I can see the book provides the picture without further comments.

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I am trying to contact Hans-Günter Kisselbach, also on his fascinating detective work on early Oskar Barnack negatives.

Roland

 

 

[Roland Zwiers]

William,

You must have an enormous collection of post-1950 Leica literature.
And so, you have a very good overview of the cumulated knowledge that is embodied there.
Fortunately, you are also willing to share this knowledge with this Leica Forum.
And when you have to, you are not afraid to make sweeping statements.

Now with a recent statement I really had to disagree:

"[Roland], you have posted a lot of other material about colour sensitivity, but, of course, these issues were not unique to Leitz or even 35mm during this period"

 So, in my reply I was compelled to formulate an equally sweeping, but alternative statement:

 “[William], the development of the Leica cannot be understood without knowledge of the Leica-specific bottlenecks with 35mm film”.

We have moved in circles before, e.g. with the 1932 Agfa-Leica cassette as compared with the 1934 Kodak Retina cassette.
In my opinion the present issue is of far greater importance!
So it is important to clarify our disagreement in a transparent and respectful way.

Your knowledge of post-19505 Leica literature far exceeds mine.
So, it is possible that I have overlooked something and that you can prove me wrong.
If so, please tell me so.

On the other hand, it is equally possible that post 1950-literature has overlooked information that I have found in pre-1945 and pre-1918 literature.
This is my impression, but then again you can prove me wrong.

It is also possible that you agree with me that post-1950 literature has a blind spot on colour sensitivity.
In that case I hope that you appreciate the added value of my independent research and that you will help me to make progress.

Roland

[LocalHero1953]

I am thoroughly enjoying this thread, @Roland Zwiers, and looking forward to where your research takes our knowledge.

[Roland Zwiers]

Paul,

Thank you so much for your kind words.
You must know that I feel under pressure to stop sharing my information with this International Leica Forum as someone in Germany may want to control the narrative.
In that case I can run into trouble for sharing early primary sources.

Of course, I hope that my concern is overdone.
But it would already help when Leica Society International ( I am a member of the club) clearly affirms my right to keep publishing my research-in-progress.
 

Roland    

 

 

[willeica]

15 hours ago, Roland Zwiers said:

"[Roland], you have posted a lot of other material about colour sensitivity, but, of course, these issues were not unique to Leitz or even 35mm during this period"

The issue about colour sensitivity was one that developed over a number of years from the wet plate, through dry plate to film. The development of black and white film that was sensitive to colours eventually led to colour photography. This was being studied by many people over many years apart from the folks at Leitz. You might like to consider joining this group which I occasionally attend as they regularly deal with the development of colour sensitive film and plates in the era in which you are interested https://www.chstm.org/group/color-photography-19th-century-and-early-20th-century-sciences-technologies-empires

As for 35mm, the last time I counted there were 43 different 35mm cameras being developed around the same time as the Leica https://corsopolaris.net/supercameras/early/early_135.html

The issues about colour sensitivity and film were not unique to Leitz or Leica, but in order to make 35mm photography successful anyone in this field would have had to deal with this issue. The same would apply to roll films and any plates that were being used at that time.

William 

[Roland Zwiers]

William,

Thank you for your reply.
But in my opinion you skip the issue.
I fully agree that after 1839 there is extensive literature on colour sensitivity.
But somehow, these insights get lost in post 1950 Leica literature. 
And so in post-1950 Leica literature there is a lot of confusion, also because of ill-founded legends on the early availability of a Perutz Fliegerfilm.

Yes, post-1950 Leica literature does relate to other pre-1925 cameras that used 35mm film.
The central questions/ observations are:

- could Oskar Barnack have known about these other 35mm camera?
- to the extent that these 35mm cameras used unperforated film/ 18x24mm frames, they do not count anyway.
- as these other experiments were doomed from the start, it is logical that the Leica would be the ultimate winner.

Note that this is a very limited way to position the Leica in the first miniature revolution, a revolution that already started with the arrival of dry plates in the 1880s.
Post-1950 Leica literature ignores that Oskar Barnack was riding the wave of this first miniature revolution.
He did not create the Ur-Leica in a vacuum!

So in this regard there is still a lot to do!

Roland

 
 

 

[Roland Zwiers]

There are a few subjects that I would like to expand on, but I cannot do this at the same time.

-          Follow-up discussion on the copying and enlarging of early Oskar Barnack negatives. 
           Here I would like to include the work of Hans-Günter Kisselbach (2008).
           I have tried to contact him, but so far without success.

-          Follow-up discussion on the miniature cameras and their complementary enlargers that were available before the Null-Serie of 1923.

-          Follow-up discussion on Oskar Barnack’s panorama camera and its relation to the Ur-Leica of 1914

I will first continue with Oskar Barnack’s panorama camera.
This will lead to four scenarios on Oskar Barnack’s cameras in 1911-1914.
And to an overall working hypothesis.

[Roland Zwiers]

Van Hasbroeck (1987) assumes that the panorama camera was produced after the introduction of the Leica in March 1925.
This is a wrong assumption (see later).
On the other it is a very logical assumption: one would indeed expect that Oskar Barnack would first create a general-purpose hand camera for perforated 35mm cine negative film before embarking on a much more specialized 35mm camera.

The next slide shows the panorama camera as reproduced in Van Hasbroeck (1987).

 

[Roland Zwiers]

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[Roland Zwiers]

Note the accessory shoe on the panorama camera.
Would this have been an original feature of 1912-1914 or added in a later year, e.g. so as to accommodate the Fodis rangefinder?

 

Van Hasbroeck (1987) also reproduces two pictures that have been made with the panorama camera.
He mentions the negative format of 24x96mm.
One of these pictures corresponds to a negative with 20 perforations that I have discussed before.
So, it is logical to assume that the panorama camera was designed for this format.

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Hallo,

Look here: Interesting Leica gear

[Roland Zwiers]

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[Roland Zwiers]

Hans-Günter Kisselbach (2008), Ulf Richter (2009) and Helmut Lagler (2022) also show pictures of the panorama camera.
Ulf Richter and Helmut Lagler mention that the panorama camera occurs in the work notes of Oskar Barnack in the years 1911 and 1912.
An early date for the panorama camera (much earlier than March 1925) also follows from a negative that I have discussed before:

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The German text states that this ‘special camera’ was hidden in 1918/19 from an inter-allied investigation-committee and that afterwards the camera could not be found anymore.
It is not known in what year his text was written.