100 years Null-Serie

[beoon]

Advertisement (gone after registration)

On 6/6/2025 at 9:27 AM, Roland Zwiers said:

Alan, Bill, Lex, Oscar, William,

Thank you for your additional information.
It was my aim to provide and justify a date for Alan’s exposure table in as few steps as possible.
In this way I arrive at 1930-1931.
As far as I can see your additional information is in line with my 1930-1931 estimate.
But it is indeed possible to enrich the analysis with additional primary sources!

Roland,

I am still puzzled why Oskar Barnack in 1930/31 would use a camera with a shutter speed of 1/25 for his testing.

Only the very early cameras (circa first 500 Anastigmat/Elmax cameras) were fitted with the 6 speed focal plane shutter (with the 1/25 speed).

By 1930/31 many of these 500 cameras had been updated during service or upgraded to a later spec 7 speed shutter, which reduces the number of cameras fitted with the 1/25 speed. The very early cameras were prone to shutter blind material issues and many were replaced due to this.

In 1930/31 Barnack was at the point of finalising the design & production of the technically superior Model II (launched in spring 1932).

I just wonder why he would use an older camera from 1925 in 1930/31 for his testing purposes?

We shall never know?

Alan

[Advertisement]

The Leica Q3 is available for pre-order at B&H Photo Video and Adorama

[willeica]

18 minutes ago, beoon said:

Roland,

 In the Hans-Gunter Kisselbach book about “Barnacks handmade prototype” he shows on page 188 contact prints of original negatives from Oskar Barnack. He dates these photos of the children from 1917?

Alan

Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here…

Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members!

I suspect that the photos of the children were taken somewhat earlier than 1917. Hanna was born in 1906 and Conrad was born in 1908. Previous images, including the stills from the Shooting Club Parade, would indicate that the Barnack children would have looked somewhat older in 1917. In 2023 we saw some negatives in the archive that seemed to have been taken from a balloon or an aircraft with Barnack's panoramic camera. 

William 

[beoon]

8 minutes ago, willeica said:

I suspect that the photos of the children were taken somewhat earlier than 1917. Hanna was born in 1906 and Conrad was born in 1908. Previous images, including the stills from the Shooting Club Parade, would indicate that the Barnack children would have looked somewhat older in 1917. In 2023 we saw some negatives in the archive that seemed to have been taken from a balloon or an aircraft with Barnack's panoramic camera. 

William 

William,

Yes, I agree with his date being too late, the book contains many other contact prints from original Barnack negatives.

He dates the aerial photographs as being 1914 and taken from a Zeppelin (negative size 24.5 x 37mm)

The children negative size is quoted as (25 x 37mm)

It is a fascinating book regarding this unique camera which pre-dates the Null Series

Alan

 

[Roland Zwiers]

8 hours ago, beoon said:

Roland,

I am still puzzled why Oskar Barnack in 1930/31 would use a camera with a shutter speed of 1/25 for his testing.

Only the very early cameras (circa first 500 Anastigmat/Elmax cameras) were fitted with the 6 speed focal plane shutter (with the 1/25 speed).

By 1930/31 many of these 500 cameras had been updated during service or upgraded to a later spec 7 speed shutter, which reduces the number of cameras fitted with the 1/25 speed. The very early cameras were prone to shutter blind material issues and many were replaced due to this.

In 1930/31 Barnack was at the point of finalising the design & production of the technically superior Model II (launched in spring 1932).

I just wonder why he would use an older camera from 1925 in 1930/31 for his testing purposes?

We shall never know?

Alan

Alan and William,

Thank you for your questions and observations.
I cannot possibly answer all these before going to work 🙂
So in the next days I will deal with one or two aspects at a time.

As to the shutterspeed of 1/25 sec.
In the 1910s, 1920s and 1930s I would say that 1/25 was the standard shutter speed on handheld cameras.
1/25 sec is a slow speed, required because of the slow films/ plates of the day.
At the same time it is fast enough to prevent camera shake.
Also, many cameras with between-the-lens shutters (Vario, Ibsor, Derval, Compound, Compur) would have a 1/25 setting. 

So it would be very normal for an exposure table to use 1/25 sec as a reference.

The most important question for me is:

Do the handwritten instructions by Oskar Barnack have a Leica-user in mind or a user of a handheld camera in general?  

For general handcamera users the 1/25 sec would indeed make more sense.
As Alan poins out, the 1/25 sec. was only found on the first batch of 500 Leica I cameras.
In addition the Compur Leica.
Most Barnack Leicas have 1/20 instead of 1/25.

On the other hand:

Oskar Barnack's notes mension shutter speeds of 1/25, 1/40 and 1/60sec. in combination with a 1:3,5 lens.
I really struggle to find another camera from this period than the Leica I (with 1/25 sec) that meets these specifications.

Also keep in mind that 1:3,5 was not a regular feature of hand cameras with a standard lens covering an angle of 45-55 degrees for a long time.
E.G. for the 6x6 Rolleiflex of 1929 the fastest Tessar design was still 1:3,8

Roland

 

 

 

 

 

[Roland Zwiers]

Alan and Willam,

Another observation has to do with early 'colour' pictures by the Ur-Leica of Oskar Barnack.
My working hypothesis is that in 1914-1915 he would colour-sensitise colour-blind black-and-white film himself.
For this he would use the regular bathing technique in an Eosin solution.

In the period 1915-1918 he may well have used Agfa Fliegerfilm that had been sensitised already by the factory.  
In a later posting I will come back to this when discussing Max Berek (1948).

Now I would like to show page 21 of Oskar Barnack's Werkstattbuch, relating to March and April 1914.

Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here…

Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members!

[Roland Zwiers]

Transcription in German

März [21]

(…)

Kopierapparat für Vergrößerungen von Kinofilm in Panorama. Eig. Co
           Luftschiff Cöln ausprobiert
April 2 Liliput Kameras fertig   Eig.Co

 

Translation in English

 (...)

Copying unit for enlargements of cine film in panorama. My own construction
           Airship Cologne given a try
April 2 Liliput cameras finished My own construction

[Roland Zwiers]

Advertisement (gone after registration)

It is crucial that native readers of German, like UliWer, do a double-check!

Now in 2023, during our visit to the Leitz archive in Wetzlar, I had some time to look at the box with early Oskar Barnack negatives.
To my great delight I found negatives that may correspond to Oskar Barnack's handwitten notes relating to March-April 1914.
One negative that was obviously taken with a panorama camera.
And several negatives that must have been taken with the Ur-Leica.

Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here…

Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members!

 

 

 

[Roland Zwiers]

The text above the panorama negative reads:

Luftbildaufnahmen (ohne Zwischenräume) mit Spezialkamera aufgenommen. 
[...]

Aerial pictures (uninterrupted by in-between speces) taken with a special camera.
[...][the additional text is very interesting, but I cannot discuss this now.]

 

The second example concern negatives taken by the Ur-Leica.
It would make sense to assume that in March-April 1914 Oskar Barnack had two 35mm cameras on board!

Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here…

Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members!

 

Now in a previous slide I already showed the print of the negative on the left, showing the shadow of the Zeppelin.
For these aerial pictures to make sense, the film had to be sensitive to the colours yellow and green. 
So this may be very early proof of Oskar Barnack's experiments with colour-sensitive black-and-white films.

Note that for these experiments Oskar Barnack must have used a yellow-filter as well.
Otherwise the over-sensitivity of the film to violet and blue would still have dominated the results.

Note as well that the lens/ lenstube on the Ur-Leica was not really suitable for accomodating a yellow filter.
The weight of the filter may have tilted the lens, leading to lack of sharpness in the corners.
The improper mounting of the yellow filter may have caused other problems.

To be continued.

Roland

 

 

 

[willeica]

11 hours ago, beoon said:

William,

Yes, I agree with his date being too late, the book contains many other contact prints from original Barnack negatives.

He dates the aerial photographs as being 1914 and taken from a Zeppelin (negative size 24.5 x 37mm)

The children negative size is quoted as (25 x 37mm)

It is a fascinating book regarding this unique camera which pre-dates the Null Series

Alan

 

Thanks, Alan. I have the book on Kindle and I met Hans-Gunter in Wetzlar in 2018. I tend to use the Richter/ Fricke book more as it concentrates on the historical detail. The discussion with Ottmar Michaely is interesting, particularly as I had a similar discussion (unrecorded) with Ottmar in Wetzlar following the auction of No 105 in 2022. in that case Ottmar confirmed that No 105 was more or less original. One big change I remember was that the wind had been changed on 105 to take FILCAs rather then the original cassettes which had become scarce. Ivor Cooper has suggested to me that some 0 Series might have been 'spool to spool' and these images of No 121 might confirm that as it seems to have similar spool holders on both sides. I can ask Lars about this, I suppose, as he sold No 121 at auction in 2023. 

Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here…

Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members!

As regards the Barnack Prototype featured in Kisselbach's book, Ottmar confirmed that it was more or less original and had been hand made, including the brass cassette which predates the design of the FILCA.

The most interesting thing is the format size being 25x37mm which indicates that it took some time for Barnack to 'land on' 24 x36mm.

2 hours ago, Roland Zwiers said:

It is crucial that native readers of German, like UliWer, do a double-check!

Now in 2023, during our visit to the Leitz archive in Wetzlar, I had some time to look at the box with early Oskar Barnack negatives.
To my great delight I found negatives that may correspond to Oskar Barnack's handwitten notes relating to March-April 1914.
One negative that was obviously taken with a panorama camera.
And several negatives that must have been taken with the Ur-Leica.

 

I saw this in 2023 and it definitely came from the panoramic camera.

1 hour ago, Roland Zwiers said:

The text above the panorama negative reads:

Luftbildaufnahmen (ohne Zwischenräume) mit Spezialkamera aufgenommen. 
[...]

Aerial pictures (uninterrupted by in-between speces) taken with a special camera.
[...][the additional text is very interesting, but I cannot discuss this now.]

 

The second example concern negatives taken by the Ur-Leica.
It would make sense to assume that in March-April 1914 Oskar Barnack had two 35mm cameras on board!

 

Now in a previous slide I already showed the print of the negative on the left, showing the shadow of the Zeppelin.
For these aerial pictures to make sense, the film had to be sensitive to the colours yellow and green. 
So this may be very early proof of Oskar Barnack's experiments with colour-sensitive black-and-white films.

Note that for these experiments Oskar Barnack must have used a yellow-filter as well.
Otherwise the over-sensitivity of the film to violet and blue would still have dominated the results.

Note as well that the lens/ lenstube on the Ur-Leica was not really suitable for accomodating a yellow filter.
The weight of the filter may have tilted the lens, leading to lack of sharpness in the corners.
The improper mounting of the yellow filter may have caused other problems.

To be continued.

Roland

 

 

 

 

I should ask Mark Osterman about the use of yellow filters with his hand treated blue sensitive film. Did you ask him about this already, Roland? 

One interesting comment from Kisselbach is that many of Barnack's negatives were contact copied later, possibly using something like an ELDIA. In some cases there are edge marks which indicate that, although in Kisselbach's book they are somewhat rounded, unlike the ones I captured below in 2021

We can ask about this when we are in the Archive in a couple of weeks from now.

As regards shutter speeds, I have a VPK from 1915 which has 1/25th and 1/50th shutter speeds as well as B and T. 

William 

Edited June 11 by willeica

[beoon]

Thanks William,

I did not know that there might be a Null Series with "spool to spool" design, that is something we should follow up at the archive or Lars?

The Kisselbach camera although pre dating the Null Series is also interesting in the fact its range of "slit widths" (ie shutter speeds) has a slit width of 1mm which relates to 1/1000 shutter speed. The Null Series fastest speed was 2mm (1/500).

Null Series camera slit widths are 2,5,10,20 & 50mm (1923)

Kisselbach camera slit widths are 1,3,5,10,20 & 50mm (which pre-dates the Null Series of 1923)

Camera known as the "3rd Prototype" has 2,5,10,20 & 50mm (which is thought to be built after 1918)

Alan

 

 

[willeica]

1 hour ago, beoon said:

Thanks William,

I did not know that there might be a Null Series with "spool to spool" design, that is something we should follow up at the archive or Lars?

The Kisselbach camera although pre dating the Null Series is also interesting in the fact its range of "slit widths" (ie shutter speeds) has a slit width of 1mm which relates to 1/1000 shutter speed. The Null Series fastest speed was 2mm (1/500).

Null Series camera slit widths are 2,5,10,20 & 50mm (1923)

Kisselbach camera slit widths are 1,3,5,10,20 & 50mm (which pre-dates the Null Series of 1923)

Camera known as the "3rd Prototype" has 2,5,10,20 & 50mm (which is thought to be built after 1918)

Alan

 

 

I went through the slit widths in my Macfilos article on No 105. 
 

William 

[Roland Zwiers]

Alan and William,

I would be interested in books that contain early Oskar Barnack pictures.
But I would be even more interested in a collective research effort to get a full overview of these negatives/ pictures.
Now I have to buy 100 euro books all the time in order to obtain a few new examples of  Oskar Barnack's early work.
Is this really the way to make progress?

Yes, I am in touch with Mark Osterman and Oscar Fricke.
Mark is doing extremely relevant research on colour-blind films.
This overlaps with the June 1914 photography by Ernst Leitz II in the USA, who used colour-blind film as well.
It does not (yet) overlap with Oskar Barnack's 1914-1915 experiments to colour-sensitise black-and-white film in a bath with eosin solution.   

The spool-to-spool film transport issue is very interesting.
I would expect this solution on M875 and on the Ur-Leica.
And maybe on the two other prototypes of 1914: the prototype for the patent office and the internal prototype for the start-up of production.
For the two 1920 prototypes I would already expect the use of cassettes.

- These 1920 prototypes include the Handmuster/ Kisselbach camera.

- And the nickelplated sister model as discussed by Ed Schwartzreich.

 

In order to avoid confusion, I will include pictures of these cameras on the next slide.

 

 

[Roland Zwiers]

Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here…

Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members!

The Handmuster/ Kisselbach camera of 1920.

 

 

[Roland Zwiers]

Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here…

Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members!

The nickle-plated prototype of 1920 as discussed by Ed Schwartsreich.

 

 

[Roland Zwiers]

Sorry, I misspelled the name of Ed Schwartzreich.

In my working hypothesis the nickel-plated prototype of 1920 may have been presented to the Imperial German patent office so as to prolong Gebrauchsmuster protection up to 1923.
This overlaps with a previous slide.

In a German photographic weekly of 1915 I found that the June 1914 Gebrauchsmuster application was finally granted in 1915.
It seems that there was a conflicting application by another German producer.
This may well explain the long delay.
It may also explain why the patent office wanted to have more information.

According to Ulf Richter (2014) the patent office even demanded a prototype: 

“(...) they didn't get a patent, only a utility model [Gebrauchsmuster]. The office had demanded that they send a sample because that was the law (...)”

Now some time ago I discussed this issue with Ulf Richter.
He agreed that the patent law of 1891 (that was still valid in 1914) did not have this explicit requirement.
But in 1914-1915 Leitz may very well have send in a working prototype on a voluntary basis.  

In 1920 literature I found that in that year a Gebrauchsmuster application could be accompanied by either a technical drawing or a working prototype.
This allows for the possibility that Ernst Leitz II used the nickle plated prototype of 1920 as part of the Gebrauchsmuster application.
In later years he would prefer to hand in the technical drawings by Herr Schäfer.
The services of Herr Schäfer may not have been available in 1920 already.

To be continued.

Roland

    

 

---

[i] Ulf Richter (2014), „Die kleine Kamera wird verlangt, da bin ich mir sicher“, in: Hans-Michael Koetzle (ed., 2014), p. 16.

[willeica]

6 hours ago, willeica said:

I went through the slit widths in my Macfilos article on No 105. 
 

William 

Some copy from my article. I had checked this with Jim Lager and Lars Netopil before publication :

"This camera did not have the first and second curtain system which appeared later. Using the M setting, the shutter speeds are not set in the usual way, but by setting a slit width with a dial giving results, according to the following table

Slit width in mm – fraction of a second = effective shutter speed

2 – 1/500s

5 – 1/200s

10 – 1/100s

20 -1/50s

50 – 1/25s

This, of course, reverses the situation with which we are familiar. Under this system, the higher the number, the slower the shutter speed, which reverses the cognitive approach which we have today. "

 

1 hour ago, Roland Zwiers said:

Sorry, I misspelled the name of Ed Schwartzreich.

In my working hypothesis the nickel-plated prototype of 1920 may have been presented to the Imperial German patent office so as to prolong Gebrauchsmuster protection up to 1923.
This overlaps with a previous slide.

In a German photographic weekly of 1915 I found that the June 1914 Gebrauchsmuster application was finally granted in 1915.
It seems that there was a conflicting application by another German producer.
This may well explain the long delay.
It may also explain why the patent office wanted to have more information.

According to Ulf Richter (2014) the patent office even demanded a prototype: 

“(...) they didn't get a patent, only a utility model [Gebrauchsmuster]. The office had demanded that they send a sample because that was the law (...)”

Now some time ago I discussed this issue with Ulf Richter.
He agreed that the patent law of 1891 (that was still valid in 1914) did not have this explicit requirement.
But in 1914-1915 Leitz may very well have send in a working prototype on a voluntary basis.  

In 1920 literature I found that in that year a Gebrauchsmuster application could be accompanied by either a technical drawing or a working prototype.
This allows for the possibility that Ernst Leitz II used the nickle plated prototype of 1920 as part of the Gebrauchsmuster application.
In later years he would prefer to hand in the technical drawings by Herr Schäfer.
The services of Herr Schäfer may not have been available in 1920 already.

To be continued.

Roland

    

 

---

[i] Ulf Richter (2014), „Die kleine Kamera wird verlangt, da bin ich mir sicher“, in: Hans-Michael Koetzle (ed., 2014), p. 16.

One would think that any camera or other item of equipment handed over would require a receipt which should either be in the Patent Office or its successor and/or in the company records, but over 100 years and a couple of World Wars may have messed things up more than a bit. I have heard of Leitz company equipment and records being destroyed by Allied bombing, both in Wetzlar and in nearby Giessen. 

I note the name of Hans-Michael Koetzle here as editor. I met him in Vienna a few weeks ago at an LSI Conference and I had dinner with him and introduced him as a speaker. His field is photography per se rather than cameras which would be more in the area that Ulf Richter would specialise in. I believe that Hans Michael, who likes to be called Michael, will be in Wetzlar for the Centenary Celebrations in about two weeks from now.

William 

[derleicaman]

21 hours ago, willeica said:

Some copy from my article. I had checked this with Jim Lager and Lars Netopil before publication :

"This camera did not have the first and second curtain system which appeared later. Using the M setting, the shutter speeds are not set in the usual way, but by setting a slit width with a dial giving results, according to the following table

Slit width in mm – fraction of a second = effective shutter speed

2 – 1/500s

5 – 1/200s

10 – 1/100s

20 -1/50s

50 – 1/25s

This, of course, reverses the situation with which we are familiar. Under this system, the higher the number, the slower the shutter speed, which reverses the cognitive approach which we have today. "

 

One would think that any camera or other item of equipment handed over would require a receipt which should either be in the Patent Office or its successor and/or in the company records, but over 100 years and a couple of World Wars may have messed things up more than a bit. I have heard of Leitz company equipment and records being destroyed by Allied bombing, both in Wetzlar and in nearby Giessen. 

I note the name of Hans-Michael Koetzle here as editor. I met him in Vienna a few weeks ago at an LSI Conference and I had dinner with him and introduced him as a speaker. His field is photography per se rather than cameras which would be more in the area that Ulf Richter would specialise in. I believe that Hans Michael, who likes to be called Michael, will be in Wetzlar for the Centenary Celebrations in about two weeks from now.

William 

I look forward to meeting him William!

[willeica]

16 minutes ago, derleicaman said:

I look forward to meeting him William!

He gave an excellent talk in Vienna on his Eyes Wide Open - 100 Years of Leica Photography book. I am hoping to meet several people at the event including Anton Ivanov at the Archive, David Rojkowski from LFI Magazine who worked on the 100 stories for 100 years of Leica book, which will include one of my articles, and also Chris Niccolls and Jason Drake from Petapixel. I met Chris and Jordan at the No 105 auction in 2022. This time they will be covering the whole event, including the auction of No 112. And, of course, we will meet all of the other people in Wetzlar that both of us know. It would be good if Ottmar Michaely, Ulf Richter and Hans-Gunter Kisselbach were at the events. I have met them all before, but there are so many questions to ask!

William 

[Advertisement]

Hallo,

Look here: Interesting Leica gear

[Roland Zwiers]

On 6/11/2025 at 8:37 AM, Roland Zwiers said:

The text above the panorama negative reads:

Luftbildaufnahmen (ohne Zwischenräume) mit Spezialkamera aufgenommen. 
[...]

Aerial pictures (uninterrupted by in-between speces) taken with a special camera.
[...][the additional text is very interesting, but I cannot discuss this now.]

 

The second example concern negatives taken by the Ur-Leica.
It would make sense to assume that in March-April 1914 Oskar Barnack had two 35mm cameras on board!

Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here…

Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members!

 

Now in a previous slide I already showed the print of the negative on the left, showing the shadow of the Zeppelin.
For these aerial pictures to make sense, the film had to be sensitive to the colours yellow and green. 
So this may be very early proof of Oskar Barnack's experiments with colour-sensitive black-and-white films.

Note that for these experiments Oskar Barnack must have used a yellow-filter as well.
Otherwise the over-sensitivity of the film to violet and blue would still have dominated the results.

Note as well that the lens/ lenstube on the Ur-Leica was not really suitable for accomodating a yellow filter.
The weight of the filter may have tilted the lens, leading to lack of sharpness in the corners.
The improper mounting of the yellow filter may have caused other problems.

To be continued.

Roland

 

 

 

Alan, Bill, William,

These observations on the copying of early Barnack negatives are extremely relevant for our further research!

1. When was this copying done?

2. On what copying devices?

3. On what kind of copying film? Safety film?

These three questions are interrelated. When the copying was done in 1914-1915 already, then Oskar Barnack may have used his own device (possibly mentioned in his Werkstattbuch). In 1914-1915 there were already specialized copying films for cinematography.

It is also possible that Barnack adapted an already existing device for his copying work. This may explain the cut-out marks on the negative strips.

Note also the sequence of the hand written numberings on the negatives on the film strips. In William's example of the old man in front of the bus the sequence is 5/6/7. In my example of the Zeppelin pictures the sequence is 73/75/82.

What does this mean?

Here it may be in order to formulate several working hypotheses that have to be tested with additional information.

One working hypothesis is that this copying project was done several years after 1914-1915, possibly on newly available safety film.

At that stage the project could still make use of the complete negatives of Oskar Barnack. And all these negatives had been numbered as well in their chronological order. 

When copying it was somehow necessary to make cut outs in between the perforations.

When copying it was decided not to copy all the negatives, but only a selection. But the copied negatives still obtained the numbers of the original sequence so one could see what in-between negatives had been left out.

The negatives that are present in the Leitz archive may then be a combination of three or more systems:

1 original negatives of Oskar Barnack, so on nitro-cellulose film

2 the first attempt at a complete numbered copy, before or after the availability of safety film.

3 a later copying project that did not aim at completeness, possibly inspired by the availability of safety film.

It would be nice if we could discuss this with the Leitz archive. 

To be continued.

Roland 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[willeica]

1 hour ago, Roland Zwiers said:

Alan, Bill, William,

These observations on the copying of early Barnack negatives are extremely relevant for our further research!

1. When was this copying done?

2. On what copying devices?

3. On what kind of copying film? Safety film?

These three questions are interrelated. When the copying was done in 1914-1915 already, then Oskar Barnack may have used his own device (possibly mentioned in his Werkstattbuch). In 1914-1915 there were already specialized copying films for cinematography.

It is also possible that Barnack adapted an already existing device for his copying work. This may explain the cut-out marks on the negative strips.

Note also the sequence of the hand written numberings on the negatives on the film strips. In William's example of the old man in front of the bus the sequence is 5/6/7. In my example of the Zeppelin pictures the sequence is 73/75/82.

What does this mean?

Here it may be in order to formulate several working hypotheses that have to be tested with additional information.

One working hypothesis is that this copying project was done several years after 1914-1915, possibly on newly available safety film.

At that stage the project could still make use of the complete negatives of Oskar Barnack. And all these negatives had been numbered as well in their chronological order. 

When copying it was somehow necessary to make cut outs in between the perforations.

When copying it was decided not to copy all the negatives, but only a selection. But the copied negatives still obtained the numbers of the original sequence so one could see what in-between negatives had been left out.

The negatives that are present in the Leitz archive may then be a combination of three or more systems:

1 original negatives of Oskar Barnack, so on nitro-cellulose film

2 the first attempt at a complete numbered copy, before or after the availability of safety film.

3 a later copying project that did not aim at completeness, possibly inspired by the availability of safety film.

It would be nice if we could discuss this with the Leitz archive. 

To be continued.

Roland 

 

 

 

 

 

 

It won't be possible to do all of that in the coming week as Leica will have about 800 guests on site.

What we do know is that some of the negatives which they have are in the approx frame dimensions of the Ur-Leica negatives. Early films often contain no film type information in the margins. Even as late as 1950 the bulk film used for my 'Swiss Photos' only indicates that it was Perutz film and nothing further. Depending on the copying techniques used, the frame sizes in the copied images may be different from the original.

I think the most we can expect at this stage is to have a general discussion about what is there and what is already known. The objective would be to determine which images had been taken using the Ur-Leica and which were copies. The most recent 'find' is in the US and not in Wetzlar. As I understand it, that roll is with Mark Osterman.

William