Sony A7r V and Modern Leica Lenses: Thoughts?

[caloosajo]

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More specifically, anyone with experience adapting 35 Lux FLE v1 or 50 Lux ASPH to either the newest A7r V or IV?

My day-to-day digital kit has been an M11 and those 2 lenses. But my photographic needs are changing and dragging a digital rangefinder is becoming less ideal on my multi day outdoor adventures. Looking to a more standard mirrorless setup to go along with the film formats I bring (120, 4x5, MP 0.72 + 35 Lux Pre-ASPH), and frankly have not been a huge fan of the L-Mount Universe after multiple demos and short-term rentals.

Are we past the “point of no return” where these high resolution sensors can no longer accommodate even standard M-mount lenses without the Leica-specific microlenses, etc?

Seems like the A7r V’s sensor most closely resembles that of the M11, and it would be great to use one of these Summiluxes for environmental portraits and low stakes street photography.

Ultimately willing to rent a Sony for a bit, but wanted a head start from the knowledgeable LUF community. Thanks, all.

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[robsonj]

I have with my A7rIV, take a look at the monochrome car pics in my Flickr album here... https://flic.kr/s/aHsmW5ESfP. A couple of them are with a Fuji GW690 also, but the exif will tell you the ones taken with the Sony, where there is no exif for the lens, it was most likely the 50lux, a couple were with the 35 FLE also, net net, they work well imho - but I don't shoot blank walls etc or care critically about the 6 pixels in the far corner etc. Why was I using my Leica glass on the Sony when I had a M10r with me... I forgot the baseplate!!! Solved now with my M11 🙂

It was doing this that helped me realize a good monochrome conversion hinges as much on the lens as it does the sensor also.

 

Cheers

Jonathan

[robsonj]

I will add, for backpacking I picked up a Sigma Fp-L with a 24mm f3.5, 45mm f2.8 and Panny 20-60mm zoom. Very compact for backpacking adventures. No mechanical shutter, but I don't come across too many artificially lit landscapes 

[robsonj]

5 minutes ago, Al Brown said:

The sensor is totally irrelevant. Wide Leica lenses will be flawed in the corners on any Sony body and the 35 FLE or 50 lux ASPH (I have both and the Sony) will not churn out their full potential on any Sony body.
You can of course use the 50 lux for portraits - even with Techart autofocus - but for SOny it is just a fully manual lens with no contacts for any corrections, meaning the lens will be presented as-is on your pictures.
I dearly recommend both the GM 35/1.4 and GM 50/1.2 for Sony. Brutal lenses without field curvature or virtually *any* flaws. Have them, absolutely love them (but not as much to sell the 35 FLE or 50 LUX ASPH of course).

I concur on the Sony gm primes, I have them also, though I just prefer to shoot with the M

[rustyrus]

NO!!!!!

If you want to use Sony bodies, get Sony mount lenses. I tried and the images are rubbish. 

I have tried 5 lenses on the Sony A7rV

21 Super Elmar

28 Summilux

35 Summilux

50 Summilux

90 APO

 

All look like awful. Im not talking about oh zoom it to 100% in the far corners awful. Center of frame, you can see the awful. If you want to move to Sony, move or keep two systems. 

 

I needed a Sony camera for video work, I just went full in and bought the 24-70 GM2 to satisfy what I needed. The plan was to use the M lenses but that fell apart quickly. Good luck to you!!!

[fededuran]

I've owned a sony A7R3 for a long time and also used the 35mm GM among other premium lenses.

I'll say this: the GMs are technically better than any summilux (even shooted on a Leica M11, as I do), but a lens is far more than the amount of sharpness, cromatic aberrations or pinchusion distortion. I'm not only talking about the experience, but also about that cinematic look from leica luxes (amazing transitions, colors, 3D pop, etc). 

 

Sony GMs are often (not always, the 85 was fantastic) too clinical and soulless, and that's a look that you like or not. As a workhorse, though, the Sony system seems way useful than any SL. Maybe that will change with the release of the SL3 (2024 is my bet), but even with improved AF there will be the size issue. 

Does it make sense to combine m lenses and bodies with a Sony kit? Of course. Why not? Buy please use each lens with its system is optimal performance is what you need.

OTOH, no brand compares to Sony in the size-iq-price ratio. To keep the Leica look that I love, I would consider using my M lenses and an adapter on an SL plus some native L primes, but I'm not still sure if this is a good practical-professional alternative to a Sony body. IQ wise, I have no doubt I'd prefer the SLs. Will rent one Sl2 + 35mm apo next week just to figure out what my ideal combo is. 

Edited March 19, 2023 by fededuran

[caloosajo]

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5 hours ago, robsonj said:

I have with my A7rIV, take a look at the monochrome car pics in my Flickr album here... https://flic.kr/s/aHsmW5ESfP. A couple of them are with a Fuji GW690 also, but the exif will tell you the ones taken with the Sony, where there is no exif for the lens, it was most likely the 50lux, a couple were with the 35 FLE also, net net, they work well imho - but I don't shoot blank walls etc or care critically about the 6 pixels in the far corner etc. Why was I using my Leica glass on the Sony when I had a M10r with me... I forgot the baseplate!!! Solved now with my M11 🙂

It was doing this that helped me realize a good monochrome conversion hinges as much on the lens as it does the sensor also.

 

Cheers

Jonathan

Super helpful, from one Jonathan to another! And your images are not only enjoyable, but also more meaningful to my question than any brick wall zoomed at 100%

[caloosajo]

5 hours ago, Al Brown said:

The sensor is totally irrelevant. Wide Leica lenses will be flawed in the corners on any Sony body and the 35 FLE or 50 lux ASPH (I have both and the Sony) will not churn out their full potential on any Sony body.
You can of course use the 50 lux for portraits - even with Techart autofocus - but for SOny it is just a fully manual lens with no contacts for any corrections, meaning the lens will be presented as-is on your pictures.
I dearly recommend both the GM 35/1.4 and GM 50/1.2 for Sony. Brutal lenses without field curvature or virtually *any* flaws. Have them, absolutely love them (but not as much to sell the 35 FLE or 50 LUX ASPH of course).

Thank you, yes I’d rather not have to say goodbye to either of those lenses but it has been fun to flirt with those G Master primes. The 135mm f1.8 was more versatile than I expected out in the field as a 2nd lens with the v2 24-70.

[caloosajo]

4 hours ago, rustyrus said:

NO!!!!!

If you want to use Sony bodies, get Sony mount lenses. I tried and the images are rubbish. 

I have tried 5 lenses on the Sony A7rV

21 Super Elmar

28 Summilux

35 Summilux

50 Summilux

90 APO

 

All look like awful. Im not talking about oh zoom it to 100% in the far corners awful. Center of frame, you can see the awful. If you want to move to Sony, move or keep two systems. 

 

I needed a Sony camera for video work, I just went full in and bought the 24-70 GM2 to satisfy what I needed. The plan was to use the M lenses but that fell apart quickly. Good luck to you!!!

Much appreciated! The M, whether film or digital, is plain and simple my favorite camera to use. So it’s less of a “want” to move to Sony, more so an attempt to be my version of pragmatic haha. Cheers. 

[newtoleica]

I've used Sony A cameras (A7R, A7Rii, A7Riv) extensively with Olympus OM system lenses. 

They work well with SLR lenses but not M lenses. 

However focus peaking with a manual lens sucks compared to a rangefinder (or indeed a film SLR viewfinder).

If you want the Leica look in a small AF cheaper and robust body what about a Leica Q2? 

[caloosajo]

4 hours ago, fededuran said:

I've owned a sony A7R3 for a long time and also used the 35mm GM among other premium lenses.

I'll say this: the GMs are technically better than any summilux (even shooted on a Leica M11, as I do), but a lens is far more than the amount of sharpness, cromatic aberrations or pinchusion distortion. I'm not only talking about the experience, but also about that cinematic look from leica luxes (amazing transitions, colors, 3D pop, etc). 

 

Sony GMs are often (not always, the 85 was fantastic) too clinical and soulless, and that's a look that you like or not. As a workhorse, though, the Sony system seems way useful than any SL. Maybe that will change with the release of the SL3 (2024 is my bet), but even with improved AF there will be the size issue. 

Does it make sense to combine m lenses and bodies with a Sony kit? Of course. Why not? Buy please use each lens with its system is optimal performance is what you need.

OTOH, no brand compares to Sony in the size-iq-price ratio. To keep the Leica look that I love, I would consider using my M lenses and an adapter on an SL plus some native L primes, but I'm not still sure if this is a good practical-professional alternative to a Sony body. IQ wise, I have no doubt I'd prefer the SLs. Will rent one Sl2 + 35mm apo next week just to figure out what my ideal combo is. 

Thanks. That SL2+35 APO (presuming SL?) is a great setup! I was loaned an SL2S with that lens and an M adapter. Was really informative to compare with the 35 FLE, 50 Lux, and 28 Cron. I am still holding out hope that the SL3 will more closely match what we’re seeing with M11 in terms of ISO and variable resolution (which I’ve found very practical).

[caloosajo]

3 minutes ago, newtoleica said:

I've used Sony A cameras (A7R, A7Rii, A7Riv) extensively with Olympus OM system lenses. 

They work well with SLR lenses but not M lenses. 

However focus peaking with a manual lens sucks compared to a rangefinder (or indeed a film SLR viewfinder).

If you want the Leica look in a small AF cheaper and robust body what about a Leica Q2? 

Thanks. Had the Q2, was a great (but unnecessary) companion to my M11. Always felt like a backup, not primary digital “workhorse”. I get why Lyndsey Addario packs one of those alongside her Nikon Z setup.

[Simone_DF]

5 hours ago, caloosajo said:

More specifically, anyone with experience adapting 35 Lux FLE v1 or 50 Lux ASPH to either the newest A7r V or IV?

My day-to-day digital kit has been an M11 and those 2 lenses. But my photographic needs are changing and dragging a digital rangefinder is becoming less ideal on my multi day outdoor adventures. Looking to a more standard mirrorless setup to go along with the film formats I bring (120, 4x5, MP 0.72 + 35 Lux Pre-ASPH), and frankly have not been a huge fan of the L-Mount Universe after multiple demos and short-term rentals.

Are we past the “point of no return” where these high resolution sensors can no longer accommodate even standard M-mount lenses without the Leica-specific microlenses, etc?

Seems like the A7r V’s sensor most closely resembles that of the M11, and it would be great to use one of these Summiluxes for environmental portraits and low stakes street photography.

Ultimately willing to rent a Sony for a bit, but wanted a head start from the knowledgeable LUF community. Thanks, all.

Are you sure the L mount is a no-no for you? The S5II and its new AF system is a game changer that brings it on par with the rest of the industry.

I used the 50 Lux on a A7RIV. It works absolutely fine, especially for environmental portraits and street photography. With the Techart adapter, you can even use eye autofocus. 

Performance is degraded compared to using a Lux on a M body, but if you don't need critical sharpness in the corners, then you're good to go. The 90mm Elmarit also works great, even in the corners. The most recent Voigtlander lenses are optimized to work on both Sony and Leica bodies. You are probably better served by selling your Lux and getting a Voigtlander 50mm 1.2 and 35mm 1.5 in M mount that will work better on both bodies.

[caloosajo]

Hey, thanks everybody for the really thoughtful and practical input. Always appreciate when LUF provides a platform for productive, candid discussion.

Lucky to have ease of access to rent the Sony stuff locally so as to not do anything drastic, but I definitely got the “head start” I was hoping for! Cheers. 

[agfa100]

Well I just picked up a used Sony A9 and this is the first pic I took with it after I charged the battery. This is a straight .jpg out of the camera NO adjustments at all, shot at 0.95 sometimes things work out.

 

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[pgk]

On 3/19/2023 at 3:24 PM, caloosajo said:

More specifically, anyone with experience adapting 35 Lux FLE v1 or 50 Lux ASPH to either the newest A7r V or IV?

Ultimately willing to rent a Sony for a bit, but wanted a head start from the knowledgeable LUF community. Thanks, all.

No. But I do use A72 and 2R camera. Whilst M lenses work ok when adapted to these Sony bodies, the reality of using them is that doing so is relatively slow given the manual focus and manual aperture control required together with focus aids like magnification and peaking. I use adapted lenses on occasion, when it makes sense to do so and the subject matter makes this viable. Otherwise I use Sony lenses which are extraordinarily good for their price.

FWIW my own view, based on experience, is that whilst there is absolutely a place for adapting lenses and using them in ways for which they were never intended, doing so is far less straightforward than using native lenses to the camera system being used.

And IMO M lenses work best on M bodies. It really is that simple.

[Simone_DF]

14 hours ago, pgk said:

the reality of using them is that doing so is relatively slow given the manual focus and manual aperture control required together with focus aids like magnification and peaking.

The folks at Techart do not agree with you

[pgk]

54 minutes ago, Simone_DF said:

The folks at Techart do not agree with you

I'm sure that someone could produce a device to automatically move the manual gearstick in a car and suggest that the result would mimic an auto gearbox. The Techart will no doubt work, but within limitations and uness they come up with some form of  'auto diaphragm mechanism' too, the lens is still compromised. Anything, within reason, many be possible, but it may still be clunky, slow and imprecise. I use various old lenses on mirrorless cameras; sometimes they produce excellent results. But I don't use them in situations where there are obviously much more effective options available (and often far cheaper options too).

FWIW I am not a Leica M user because of the superlative quality of Leica M lenses (other makers produce some absolutely superb optics too) but because I like the RF experience and the total control offered by the M cameras. When I need more effective tools I select other options.

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Hallo,

Look here: Leica M

[Photoworks]

Well, the Lux 50 works fine on the Sony, the 35 Lux much less.

But to be frank, if you are trying to get the soft summilux 1.4 look you are not counting on corner-to-corner performance. In portraits, the face will be sharp and the borders will go softer, nothing wrong with that. You will still have all the Summilux magic.

If you are doing photographs of landscapes you probably are looking for more sharpness and more lens correction anyway that another lens is more desirable.

 

[MaTiHH]

Using the Techart lmea9 adapter eye autofocus is very practically usable with ie the 50 apo. 
 

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also in terms of sharpness corner to corner I can not see any differences between the lens shoot on m11 or a7r5. How should there be a difference when not are using the same sensor.