POKO Posted October 22, 2007 Share #1 Posted October 22, 2007 Advertisement (gone after registration) Hi, Not sure how the rest of you feel about the C1 Pro prfiles, but I have not had much luck with the quality of the color I am getting from the files. Has anyone used ColorEyes 20/20 software to generate custom profiles? If so, what were the results like? Thanks, Per Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted October 22, 2007 Posted October 22, 2007 Hi POKO, Take a look here ColorEyes 20/20 Profiling Software. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
Jamie Roberts Posted October 22, 2007 Share #2 Posted October 22, 2007 Yes, I've used it. Stay away. Far, far far away. Run. This is the very worst camera profiling mess I've ever seen. You're better off buying C1 pro and using the profile editor in the software (and that's saying something... it's not easy to use). What issues are you having with the camera's colour? (since I'm close to Toronto, maybe I can help out here?) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
POKO Posted October 22, 2007 Author Share #3 Posted October 22, 2007 Hi Jamie, Thank you for your comments! Do you mean color editor? Or is there another part to C1 Pro that I am not aware of? I have had a lot of luck with my P45 using the profiles that are included with the software, but the supplied M8 profiles do some bad things in the shadow side of color portraits - they go REALLY red. I have used the color editor with a fair bit of success, but only for small adjustments. Had to shoot some paintings recently - in four cities accross the country - so I couldn't keep them to compare to when processing/proofing the files. We opened them in color editor and made the adjustments on the fly. It worked quite well. These adjustments are too great to do with color editor What was the problem you had with 20/20? Thanks Jamie. If you are ever in TO, let me know and perhaps we could hook up for a beer eh? Per Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamie Roberts Posted October 22, 2007 Share #4 Posted October 22, 2007 Per-- First things first--absolutely, let's get together for a beer sometime! I'm in town a couple times a week (usually in the evenings) so we should do that. Anyway, Coloreyes is just not nearly primetime software, or rather, it was primetime many years ago for non-critical results. It's a Photoshop plugin, for one thing, and almost impossible to set up, I find. That would be ok if the results weren't banded, off-colour and impossible to edit. I guess I'm saying that the results weren't worth the effort. You're absolutely welcome to borrow mine, if you like! And yes--I meant the C1 Pro Color Editor, which lets you save out the results as an ICC profile (so you can simply apply it to the camera again and again, for those who don't have C1). I'm sure I could help you tweak a too-red profile for the M8 if that's what you need. Are you using the IR profile supplied with C1? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
archi4 Posted October 22, 2007 Share #5 Posted October 22, 2007 Jamie, Just for the record, I have recently tried the Coloreyes Monitor Profiling software on my i-Mac 20 display, after using other software/hardware combinations, and for the first time I have a truly well profiled monitor. Both brightness and color neutrality are above reproach and all prints made on my Epson 3800 with the Epson profiles and custom made profiles are spot on in a side by side with the monitor. Therefore I was surprised that this same company would botch their camera profiling. I have used the C1 color editor with mixed results on both the M8 and Olympus files but find it tricky. I can usually find a profile for one of the other cameras or backs that does what I want. By the way, I often look at your work and admire it immensely. regards, maurice Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
POKO Posted October 23, 2007 Author Share #6 Posted October 23, 2007 Per-- First things first--absolutely, let's get together for a beer sometime! I'm in town a couple times a week (usually in the evenings) so we should do that. Anyway, Coloreyes is just not nearly primetime software, or rather, it was primetime many years ago for non-critical results. It's a Photoshop plugin, for one thing, and almost impossible to set up, I find. That would be ok if the results weren't banded, off-colour and impossible to edit. I guess I'm saying that the results weren't worth the effort. You're absolutely welcome to borrow mine, if you like! And yes--I meant the C1 Pro Color Editor, which lets you save out the results as an ICC profile (so you can simply apply it to the camera again and again, for those who don't have C1). I'm sure I could help you tweak a too-red profile for the M8 if that's what you need. Are you using the IR profile supplied with C1? Hi Jamie, Thank you for the offer! I am not sure that the color editor will be able to adjust the colors this much without having an effect on the other colors, but I will gladly try??? We "Fixed" the files with the selecive color adjustment layer, but I would rather have it be done right at the source - RAW processing - than after the fact. this file has had a LOT of correction applied, and the effect is making itself shown in the highlight color and contrast. The complexity and subtlety is lost... Brewskey's - sure - I am away until the 12th of November - after that??? Per Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/36338-coloreyes-2020-profiling-software/?do=findComment&comment=383132'>More sharing options...
Jamie Roberts Posted October 23, 2007 Share #7 Posted October 23, 2007 Advertisement (gone after registration) Maurice-- First, thanks so much for your kind words on my work. And yes, I was surprised to see the "botch job" on the Coloreyes camera profiling software; all the more because the monitor profiling device has a very good reputation! I think they left camera profiling behind, honestly, and concentrated on the monitor side of things. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
POKO Posted October 23, 2007 Author Share #8 Posted October 23, 2007 Jamie,Just for the record, I have recently tried the Coloreyes Monitor Profiling software on my i-Mac 20 display, after using other software/hardware combinations, and for the first time I have a truly well profiled monitor. Both brightness and color neutrality are above reproach and all prints made on my Epson 3800 with the Epson profiles and custom made profiles are spot on in a side by side with the monitor. Therefore I was surprised that this same company would botch their camera profiling. I have used the C1 color editor with mixed results on both the M8 and Olympus files but find it tricky. I can usually find a profile for one of the other cameras or backs that does what I want. By the way, I often look at your work and admire it immensely. regards, maurice Hi, I actually use the color eyes software for my monitor as well, and it seems to work well. This is why I was thinking the sensor/camera calibration software would work as well. Guess it does not. Sad, because the P45 profiles seem to do what they are supposed to do. Per Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamie Roberts Posted October 23, 2007 Share #9 Posted October 23, 2007 Per--after the 12th we should get together! I'll bring my Coloreyes package and you can use it till it gets you as frustrated as I was Seriously, though, I can see what you mean about the red shift in shadows--that would be horrible on a shot like that. Very odd. What I meant in my previous post was, ultimately, I could use a different program (probably PM5) to tweak a profile for you with better skin tones if the C1 editor can't quite do the trick. There's a good curves interface in the current PM5 that should do it just fine. And I've been itching to reprofile the M8 anyway--just waiting for Leica to quit messing with the white balance! Anyway, skin tones are one place the current C1 profile still falls apart on in all but the best, low-contrast, light. So let me know when you're back in town and we'll get together! Looking forward to it! EDIT: Per--if you wouldn't mind leaving me with the raw file I'd like to try a couple of things... but it's up to you. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
POKO Posted October 23, 2007 Author Share #10 Posted October 23, 2007 Hi Jamie, Thanks! I will forward my FTP info and put the raw file there for you to download if you are feeling inspired to kill some time! I will get it to you tomorrow as I do not have the raw files here at home. After the 12th then! Per Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
35mmSummicron Posted October 23, 2007 Share #11 Posted October 23, 2007 you can use the colour editor in C1 Pro to reduce the red saturation on the standard leica IR M8 profile, however you will likely find that the effectiveness of these corrections will vary depending on the intensity of light, contrast and subject matter. so effectively you will have to fine tune for each lighting setup--essentially the exact same procedure as selective colour in Photoshop. the only difference is that you can isolate the reds A LOT better in photoshop. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pascal_meheut Posted October 23, 2007 Share #12 Posted October 23, 2007 Anyway, skin tones are one place the current C1 profile still falls apart on in all but the best, low-contrast, light. Depending on your lighting condition, the problem may also be that even with the IR filter, there is still some contamination. I shot the same portrait with the DMR both with a 54MZ4 flash and in a 2400K available light. After adjusting the WB, the colors are the same. With the M8 and a Leica IR filter, the skin tones are ok with the flash but way too red with the IR rich light. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
eronald Posted October 23, 2007 Share #13 Posted October 23, 2007 The Coloreyes Display software is one of the best packages on the market The camera profiling software is whatever you care to say of it - some find it useful others not. Unfortunately the same can be said of most camera profiling packages at this point in time. Re. The M8 I will distribute some new profiles for the current camera again as soon as I can get a functional replacement for my camera. Edmund Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wparsonsgisnet Posted October 23, 2007 Share #14 Posted October 23, 2007 The Coloreyes Display software is one of the best packages on the market The camera profiling software is whatever you care to say of it - some find it useful others not. Unfortunately the same can be said of most camera profiling packages at this point in time. Re. The M8 I will distribute some new profiles for the current camera again as soon as I can get a functional replacement for my camera. Edmund Edmund, thanks for weighing in. Which display profiler do you use? I have the inexpensive Huey (plus Pro upgrade) but am still finding the prints darker than the image appears on the screen. I am using Image Print with my Epson 2400. The colors are correct except that they are darker than the monitor shows. I'd like to fix this "feature" of my monitor (Sony 19" lcd). I'm interested in your profile for v-1.1 when you're ready. If I can assist you in this effort, I'd be happy to take shots for your purposes. Regards, Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamie Roberts Posted October 23, 2007 Share #15 Posted October 23, 2007 Bill--I don't know if the Huey will let you do this, but you need to change the luminance target for your monitor profile. That's about it! Edmund is using some very high-end xrite Monaco stuff, IIRC. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamie Roberts Posted October 23, 2007 Share #16 Posted October 23, 2007 Depending on your lighting condition, the problem may also be that even with the IR filter, there is still some contamination. I shot the same portrait with the DMR both with a 54MZ4 flash and in a 2400K available light. After adjusting the WB, the colors are the same. With the M8 and a Leica IR filter, the skin tones are ok with the flash but way too red with the IR rich light. Unfortunately your test doesn't really tell you whether there is IR contamination or just a bad tungsten profile. I suspect the profile--because to my eyes even in good light they messed up the magenta / green balance. Of course I could be wrong Since I post process in PS, it doesn't bother me that much. And Leica is still messing with WB and colour, I think. But it's time to re-tweak some profiles, probably. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
eronald Posted October 23, 2007 Share #17 Posted October 23, 2007 Edmund is using some very high-end xrite Monaco stuff, IIRC. Actually, I'm now mostly using a custom profile editing chain which contains some of my own software which I've authored over the past 6 months This allows me to escape licensing issues, and supply profiles to equipment manufacturers, which the Xrite solution did not. Edmund Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
eronald Posted October 23, 2007 Share #18 Posted October 23, 2007 Hello again ! The luminosity issue seems to be a constant complaint from Xrite software users, yet again. Third party software does not yet support Huey AFAIK. I will see whether I can do something to help you. Edmund Edmund, thanks for weighing in. Which display profiler do you use? I have the inexpensive Huey (plus Pro upgrade) but am still finding the prints darker than the image appears on the screen. I am using Image Print with my Epson 2400. The colors are correct except that they are darker than the monitor shows. I'd like to fix this "feature" of my monitor (Sony 19" lcd). I'm interested in your profile for v-1.1 when you're ready. If I can assist you in this effort, I'd be happy to take shots for your purposes. Regards, Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pascal_meheut Posted October 24, 2007 Share #19 Posted October 24, 2007 Unfortunately your test doesn't really tell you whether there is IR contamination or just a bad tungsten profile. I suspect the profile--because to my eyes even in good light they messed up the magenta / green balance. Saw the same with ACR/Lightroom & Silkypix (the last one suggested worth a try by Leica) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamie Roberts Posted October 24, 2007 Share #20 Posted October 24, 2007 Saw the same with ACR/Lightroom & Silkypix (the last one suggested worth a try by Leica) Pascal, interesting. But here's my logic... If Leica worked with C1 on the DNG matrix, and then C1 profiled (and got the magenta - green matrix a bit wrong for skin tones), then all of the software that reads the DNG matrix (ACR, Silkypix, LR,) etc... will also get the basic colour wrong. You can fix this in ACR / LR by tweaking the presets. But only C1 will let you apply a specific profile on input, to my knowledge. If I'm misunderstanding this then that's ok too, since I believe all digicams suffer from the same problem: it's a must to profile them. IOW, in my experience, no manufacturer of digital cameras gets skin tones right "out of the box"--sensors just see skin differently than our eyes (and differently than film did too). So it's always a tradeoff in terms of other colours. Look, for example, at how many profiles Phase supplies for its own backs!! Skin tone, skine tone tungsten, etc... and so on. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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