PDAF likely to replace DFD-CDAF on SL3

[LBJ2]

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USB to SSD !!! 🥳

I also noticed the L2 Technology logo included the marketing--could this indicate things to come for the SL system 😎

[Chaemono]

L-mount lenses have already fast enough motors for PDAF because DFD requires very fast motors. Firmware update required, particularly, for the zoom L-mount lenses to be able to zoom and autofocus at the same time.

[matted]

Some exciting features in the S5-II/IIx to be sure, but wouldn't it be more indicative of what to expect in the SL3 if it was an S1_-II flagship model?

[Chaemono]

Started a thread on S5 II video reviews. The AF tracking looks awesome. Applicable to the SL3-S, of course. It should be good enough in the SL3.

 

[Planetwide]

12 hours ago, beewee said:

Believe it or not, moulded plastics are actually quite expensive for low volume production and it’s often cost prohibitive. It really only makes sense if you’re manufacturing tens if not hundreds of thousands of parts where injection molding becomes economical. The cost of tooling for the injection molds is extremely expensive and for smaller volume productions it’s more economical to use CNC, especially if you already have all the tooling capability in house that’s well amortized, which is the case for Leica. Tooling costs skyrocket when high precision becomes a requirement as the injection moulds will wear out overtime and you end up having to discard them sooner than if your precision requirements are less stringent.

Carbon layups can be economical to make for large parts that doesn’t require sub-millimeter precision but for very high precision parts like body housings where you have components that need to be screwed into place, it would be very costly to use carbon layups as your rejection rate would be very high. The only sensible composite option would be to use a carbon loaded injection plastic but then you run into very high cost of tooling. Plus even then, you are still stuck with having to mold in metal parts for things like tripod mounts and hotshoes which drives up the cost even further.

For SL bodies where Leica may sell <50k units over the life cycle of the product, CNC machined housing components is actually the most sensible and cost effective choice.

I had no idea, since I am not involved in production. The weight is still an issue though...

[LBJ2]

3 hours ago, LBJ2 said:

USB to SSD !!! 🥳

I also noticed the L2 Technology logo included the marketing--could this indicate things to come for the SL system 😎

To be more clear, USB SSD is apparently specific to the forthcoming Lumix S5 II X. 

[LocalHero1953]

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3 hours ago, LBJ2 said:

USB to SSD !!! 🥳

I also noticed the L2 Technology logo included the marketing--could this indicate things to come for the SL system 😎

DPReview comment that the processor was a joint effort between Leica and Panasonic under the L2 alliance

[LBJ2]

2 hours ago, matted said:

Some exciting features in the S5-II/IIx to be sure, but wouldn't it be more indicative of what to expect in the SL3 if it was an S1_-II flagship model?

Maybe. From my current point of view I'm looking at new underlying L2 Technology in these new Panasonic cameras as an indication of what we "might" expect in part and/or in whole coming to the SL3 system. I'm still of the mind, we will see SL3 and SL3-S so maybe there will be some L2 Technology included differently per SL model. 

[LocalHero1953]

4 minutes ago, LBJ2 said:

To be more clear, USB SSD is apparently specific to the forthcoming Lumix S5 II X. 

The Sigma fp has this already (and I use it a lot), but crucially the Sigma body can be powered independently through a dummy battery. The S5 II is apparently powered through the USB port - not great for recording long videos (unless I've missed something e.g. a second USB port). 

[LBJ2]

2 minutes ago, LocalHero1953 said:

DPReview comment that the processor was a joint effort between Leica and Panasonic under the L2 alliance

Yes. If I understand the L2 announcement correctly, this shared Leica/Panasonic technology/resources approach is the foundation of their go-forward business model. 

[LBJ2]

4 minutes ago, LocalHero1953 said:

The Sigma fp has this already (and I use it a lot), but crucially the Sigma body can be powered independently through a dummy battery. The S5 II is apparently powered through the USB port - not great for recording long videos (unless I've missed something e.g. a second USB port). 

This should be interesting to see how Panasonic actually enables this feature once the reviewers get their hands on the Lumix S5 II X . This is a major feature for some, so will draw a lot of attention particularly at this price point.

I didn't know the Sigma fp offers this already--very cool. 

[LBJ2]

7 minutes ago, LocalHero1953 said:

The Sigma fp has this already (and I use it a lot), but crucially the Sigma body can be powered independently through a dummy battery. The S5 II is apparently powered through the USB port - not great for recording long videos (unless I've missed something e.g. a second USB port). 

From what I see on the Lumix S5 II, I'm thinking USB-C 

[LocalHero1953]

7 minutes ago, LBJ2 said:

This should be interesting to see how Panasonic actually enables this feature once the reviewers get their hands on the Lumix S5 II X . This is a major feature for some, so will draw a lot of attention particularly at this price point.

I didn't know the Sigma fp offers this already--very cool. 

As part of the Sigma Lego system, you buy a Sigma add-on with a hot shoe (to mount a mic, if you want it); to that add-on you attach a third party clamp designed to hold a Samsung 2Tb T5 SSD (credit card size) or similar. It sounds clunky - well it is, a bit - but it actually works well - I can record about 80mins of 4K CinemaDNG on one SSD (good enough for most theatre productions) - but you need a mains power supply.

Edited January 4, 2023 by LocalHero1953

[sillbeers15]

Panasonic S5 Mkll Autofocus Review:

 

[LBJ2]

1 minute ago, sillbeers15 said:

Panasonic S5 Mkll Autofocus Review:

I've gotten through a few of these Lumix S5 II videos now. All looking very positive and supportive of what Panasonic has done here. Some new-product nits of course e.g., one reviewer still found evidence of very slight DFD pulse in video mode--but vastly superior to previous DFD. This may indicate DFD is still in there somewhere...

Surprising to me is more than a few commenting on the "lovely colors" out of the Lumix S5 II. Maybe Leica's contribution to the L2 Technology Alliance? However, I am not particularly aware of Panasonic's previous color profile. 

 

[matted]

19 minutes ago, LBJ2 said:

Maybe. From my current point of view I'm looking at new underlying L2 Technology in these new Panasonic cameras as an indication of what we "might" expect in part and/or in whole coming to the SL3 system. I'm still of the mind, we will see SL3 and SL3-S so maybe there will be some L2 Technology included differently per SL model. 

Good point, it certainly seems that way and this is all excellent news for at least the short term future of the SL line, and L mount in general. I am excited to see what Leica's next announcement is! I would have expected the SL3 first, but perhaps with Panasonic developing/releasing 24MP with PDAF first, perhaps we will see SL3-s before SL3.

[matted]

Just now, LBJ2 said:

.... This may indicate DFD is still in there somewhere...

....

 

The DPReview "initial review" article specifically lists the AF system specs as "PDAF + DFD" in the "How it compares" section. This could be speculation, however it is likely this came from some of the Panasonic marketing materials or press kit.

[LBJ2]

11 minutes ago, matted said:

Good point, it certainly seems that way and this is all excellent news for at least the short term future of the SL line, and L mount in general. I am excited to see what Leica's next announcement is! I would have expected the SL3 first, but perhaps with Panasonic developing/releasing 24MP with PDAF first, perhaps we will see SL3-s before SL3.

For me Very exciting and telling. While I don't use Panasonic cameras/lenses...these new L2 Technology features and so much progress AF wise, sure feels like an SL crystal ball 😉 OTOH, I put so much time, effort and practice into learning how to use SL2 DFD effectively to get the shot, even fast moving subjects, I'm almost feeling a bit melancoly ha ha. 

Edited January 4, 2023 by LBJ2

[hansvons]

37 minutes ago, matted said:

I would have expected the SL3 first, but perhaps with Panasonic developing/releasing 24MP with PDAF first, perhaps we will see SL3-s before SL3.

The upcoming SL3-S has a great chance to be Leica's take on the more video-centric S5II-X, which isn't released yet. Thus, we will see the SL3 first and then the SL3-S, perhaps both, after the S1II has been released, I guess.

These are promising developments, mainly the video stabilisation and the continuous AF, plus the announced ProRes recording option of SSD via USB.

37 minutes ago, LBJ2 said:

Surprising to me is more than a few commenting on the "lovely colors" out of the Lumix S5 II. Maybe Leica's contribution to the L2 Technology Alliance?

Panasonic's colour style can be best described as "vibrant". From what I can tell from the DPReview video, that hasn't changed. Skin tones are still on the orange/carrot side, and foliage has that yellowish tint. 

Edited January 4, 2023 by hansvons

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[sillbeers15]

After watching a few Panasonic S5 Mkll reviews on YouTube, I can safely conclude that the autofocus foundation of the second generation S series cameras & the coming Leica SL series cameras are on a mirrorless industry compatible standard on AFC tracking. Still early days yet as more firmware tweeks will fine tune & improve. Good job L2! I’m looking forward to SL3 to replace my SL3.